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Opposing claims? "Vitamin D3 and omega-3 fatty acids not helpful in reducing risk of frailty" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-09-vitamin-d3-omega-fatty-aci

Opposing claims? "Vitamin D3 and omega-3 fatty acids not helpful in reducing risk of frailty" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-09-vitamin-d3-omega-fatty-acids.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-09-vitamin-d3-omega-fatt...

jakeinspace 2y ago
Those are different claims. I don't exactly know what frailty means technically, but this was a 5 year study on the elderly. Preserving organ health with a lifetime of omega 3 consumption is totally different.
eightysixfour 2y ago
I'm starting to wonder if Vitamin D and Omega 3s are indicators, not drivers. D is an indicator that you spend time outdoors, in the sun, and that is healthy for your body. Similarly, Omega 3 is indicative of other lifestyle choices, not causal for better health.
- Enginerrrd 2y ago
  Or even that being healthier and less frail means you're more likely to go out and enjoy being outdoors. As I age, I increasingly see the effect that healthy people with great genetics also have all the indicators of being healthy. I think this effect is conflated to an extent even for things like exercise: for people that feel good and strong, exercise feels great. For people that aren't, they go downhill faster anyway. I have terrible genetics for cardiovascular disease. I've spent my life as an athlete, eating healthy, training, etc. But now in my 30's, I can feel the slow down a lot despite being more disciplined in my training and diet than ever and yet I know people my age that haven't trained in years that can just go for a run and absolutely smoke me. I'm sure at some point my genetics is going to force me to slow down a bit on the training despite my best efforts and then I'll just end up as someone contributing to the statistics that those who exercise more are healthier. I know that exercise has benefits nevertheless, but I also think we very often just make the mistake of concluding "healthier people are healthier". Life is not really fair.
- kanbankaren 2y ago
  > I'm starting to wonder if Vitamin D and Omega 3s are indicators, not drivers. That is not true. AFAIK there have been several studies using supplements of Vitamin D3 & Omega-3 that showed that it improved biomarkers of various diseases.
  - blah2244 2y ago
    Yep, here’s one about symptoms chronic kidney disease that showed significant results: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39246955/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39246955/ Similar significant results for symptoms of cystic fibrosis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32275788/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32275788/
- blased 2y ago
  > I'm starting to wonder if Vitamin D and Omega 3s are indicators, not drivers most cells have vitamin D receptors, so I would think it is actually a driver
- kpfleger 2y ago
  No, ample evidence shows that vitamin D (or vitamin D deficiency at least) is causally related to multiple diseases. The evidence is pretty overwhelming. Eg here's a just published review on D deficiency causality for Covid based on applying Hill's Criteria for causality https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/3/599 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/3/599 and a prior 2022 paper on the same subject https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35308241/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35308241/ Some vitamin D skeptics claim tat there's insufficient evidence from RCTs but few people question the causality of smoking's influence on cancer despite no RCTs for that---that relationship was established also via Hill's Criteria.
  - kpfleger 2y ago
    For more extensive discussion see my X thread here: https://x.com/KarlPfleger/status/1888649974621347950 https://x.com/KarlPfleger/status/1888649974621347950
  - eightysixfour 2y ago
    > No, ample evidence shows that vitamin D (or vitamin D deficiency at least) is causally related to multiple diseases. Both my statement and yours can be true. Having a deficiency in an essential nutrient can be causal for bad outcomes while, at the same time, having the correct amount or excess can be non-causal but correlated with positive health outcomes.
lmpdev 2y ago
As with almost everything in medicine, you can find papers both for and against It doesn’t mean that either paper’s claims or results are automatically invalid Research is hard

jakeinspace 2y ago

Those are different claims. I don't exactly know what frailty means technically, but this was a 5 year study on the elderly. Preserving organ health with a lifetime of omega 3 consumption is totally different.

eightysixfour 2y ago

I'm starting to wonder if Vitamin D and Omega 3s are indicators, not drivers. D is an indicator that you spend time outdoors, in the sun, and that is healthy for your body. Similarly, Omega 3 is indicative of other lifestyle choices, not causal for better health.

Enginerrrd 2y ago
Or even that being healthier and less frail means you're more likely to go out and enjoy being outdoors. As I age, I increasingly see the effect that healthy people with great genetics also have all the indicators of being healthy. I think this effect is conflated to an extent even for things like exercise: for people that feel good and strong, exercise feels great. For people that aren't, they go downhill faster anyway. I have terrible genetics for cardiovascular disease. I've spent my life as an athlete, eating healthy, training, etc. But now in my 30's, I can feel the slow down a lot despite being more disciplined in my training and diet than ever and yet I know people my age that haven't trained in years that can just go for a run and absolutely smoke me. I'm sure at some point my genetics is going to force me to slow down a bit on the training despite my best efforts and then I'll just end up as someone contributing to the statistics that those who exercise more are healthier. I know that exercise has benefits nevertheless, but I also think we very often just make the mistake of concluding "healthier people are healthier". Life is not really fair.
kanbankaren 2y ago
> I'm starting to wonder if Vitamin D and Omega 3s are indicators, not drivers. That is not true. AFAIK there have been several studies using supplements of Vitamin D3 & Omega-3 that showed that it improved biomarkers of various diseases.
- blah2244 2y ago
  Yep, here’s one about symptoms chronic kidney disease that showed significant results: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39246955/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39246955/ Similar significant results for symptoms of cystic fibrosis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32275788/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32275788/
blased 2y ago
> I'm starting to wonder if Vitamin D and Omega 3s are indicators, not drivers most cells have vitamin D receptors, so I would think it is actually a driver
kpfleger 2y ago
No, ample evidence shows that vitamin D (or vitamin D deficiency at least) is causally related to multiple diseases. The evidence is pretty overwhelming. Eg here's a just published review on D deficiency causality for Covid based on applying Hill's Criteria for causality https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/3/599 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/3/599 and a prior 2022 paper on the same subject https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35308241/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35308241/ Some vitamin D skeptics claim tat there's insufficient evidence from RCTs but few people question the causality of smoking's influence on cancer despite no RCTs for that---that relationship was established also via Hill's Criteria.
- kpfleger 2y ago
  For more extensive discussion see my X thread here: https://x.com/KarlPfleger/status/1888649974621347950 https://x.com/KarlPfleger/status/1888649974621347950
- eightysixfour 2y ago
  > No, ample evidence shows that vitamin D (or vitamin D deficiency at least) is causally related to multiple diseases. Both my statement and yours can be true. Having a deficiency in an essential nutrient can be causal for bad outcomes while, at the same time, having the correct amount or excess can be non-causal but correlated with positive health outcomes.

lmpdev 2y ago

As with almost everything in medicine, you can find papers both for and against It doesn’t mean that either paper’s claims or results are automatically invalid Research is hard