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For reference: JD Vance said that another DOGE staffer, who resigned after it was reported that he'd publicly come out in favor of racism, eugenics, and normali

For reference: JD Vance said that another DOGE staffer, who resigned after it was reported that he'd publicly come out in favor of racism, eugenics, and normalizing hate against Indian people on Twitter, should be rehired because it was just "stupid social media activity".

jlawson 2y ago
No, you're lying by extracting context. Here's what he said. Here’s my view: I obviously disagree with some of Elez’s posts, but I don’t think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid’s life. We shouldn’t reward journalists who try to destroy people. Ever. So I say bring him back. If he’s a bad dude or a terrible member of the team, fire him for that. https://x.com/JDVance/status/1887900880143343633 https://x.com/JDVance/status/1887900880143343633 -- The part about the journalists is the operative part obviously.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  We shouldn't treat people as if their words have no consequences either.
- shitter 2y ago
  It's not a lie. "I don’t think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid’s life" does two things: characterizes endorsements of racism and eugenics policies as "stupid social media activity", and asserts that exposure of such activity should not lead to someone losing their job. The part about not rewarding journalists who "destroy" people does not exist in a vacuum away from his downplaying of Elez's abhorrent racial views. If journalists had revealed Elez, for example, was a secret left-wing antifa supporter on Bluesky, I think we can reasonably doubt Vance's reaction would have been the same. Edit: Now that you've brought Vance's tweet into focus, it's also interesting that he does not think Elez is currently a "bad dude" when he's expressly stated a desire to normalize hatred against an entire ethnicity
  - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
    Also (mis)characterizes a grown ass man as a kid
- ks2048 2y ago
  I'd like to see a a press conference: "Question for JD Vance - can you look at your Indian wife and children and then say a guy posting 'Normalize Indian hate' is not a 'bad dude'"?
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    Follow-up: "How is Elez both a child who shouldn't be held responsible for his actions from as recently as 2 months ago, but also the right person to be trusted with extensive access to government systems?"
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      Also fun how Trump has no problem saying that pro-palestine protestors should be deported (a vastly more harmful outcome than losing a job).
      - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
        "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." The doge boys are in-group, so they are protected, and the law will not be brought to bear against them. Simple as that.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        Who are you quoting?
        sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
        Frank Wilhoit, but not necessarily the Frank Wilhoit you might think when told it's Frank Wilhoit. https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservative...
      - 2y ago
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  "I don't think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid's life" is incredibly dishonest and Vance should be held to account for this incredibly dishonest statement. The phrasing is intended to create the impression that the posts were made years ago, by some angry teenager, and it's not relevant to the person they are today. It's a way of downplaying the acts, creating distance between the person today and the acts at some unspecified point in the past. But we know these timeline details. Elez is not a "kid" now, he's 25. These posts were not made when he was 13, they were made last year when he was, I suppose, 24 going on 25. There are two conflicting perspectives being promoted by Musk, Vance, etc which IMO are in direct logical conflict: 1) This person's actions last year (going up to December 2024! Just 2 months ago!) are the actions of an irresponsible child and we shouldn't hold them accountable for those actions because they're not responsible enough to be held accountable for them. 2) This person is responsible enough right now to be operating at the highest levels of government. He can't be both. So which is he, really?
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  wat? We shouldn't reward journalists for finding and exposing morally repugnant people getting near the levers of state power? That is 100% exactly on-the-money the absolute ideal usecase for journalism.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  > but I don’t think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid’s life. He’s 25 or 26, given his birth year. The comments were posted months ago. This isn’t a “kid”! Calling him a kid is a propaganda tactic that got rolled out to try to confuse people about the true story. He’s an adult. He made the comments as an adult. > We shouldn’t reward journalists who try to destroy people. Ever. It’s extraordinarily irrational to think that we should ignore important information simply to spite journalists. There is nothing logical in that argument. It’s pure emotion and spite driven.
hagbard_c 2y ago
[flagged]
- talldayo 2y ago
  > What is so egregious about this that he needed to be pushed out You are cherrypicking. There are dozens of other posts, ranging from benign to South Park edgy to outright indefensible. In any case, they were shameful and he should be taking great efforts to apologize and prove he's a changed person if he actually regrets posting them. Broken clocks are right twice a day and all that.
  - hagbard_c 2y ago
    Compared to what is daily being said about 'white men' in particular and 'men' in general those posts seem to be mostly par for the course. If the things he says about ${identity_group} are bad then so are the same things being said by people in high places about the aforementioned so a sizeable fraction of 'progressives' should [take] great efforts to apologize and prove [they're] changed person[s]. If you don't agree I'd like to know where the difference lies.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      I don't know what to tell you. It's racism, whether or not he's a white man or an Indian woman. If racism is "par for the course" then guess what, it's still racism. > If the things he says about ${identity_group} are bad then so are the same things being said by people in high places about the aforementioned so a sizeable fraction of 'progressives' Please, point to the spot where the progressives are being racist. Are you going to accuse Democrats of being racist against Krasnodar Krai for supporting Ukraine in their racist and illegal defense of Russian homeland? Accuse them of hating Palestinians more than Trump? Or no, you're going to cherry pick racist Buzzfeed columnists who are (somehow) an analog for an appointed government employee with privileged access to private data.
- ks2048 2y ago
  You picked one of his posts. The one that has gotten the most attention is "Normalize Indian hate".
sekai 2y ago
> For reference: JD Vance said that another DOGE staffer, who resigned after it was reported that he'd publicly come out in favor of racism, eugenics, and normalizing hate against Indian people on Twitter, should be rehired because it was just "stupid social media activity". To add to this, JD Vance's wife is Indian.

jlawson 2y ago

No, you're lying by extracting context. Here's what he said. Here’s my view: I obviously disagree with some of Elez’s posts, but I don’t think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid’s life. We shouldn’t reward journalists who try to destroy people. Ever. So I say bring him back. If he’s a bad dude or a terrible member of the team, fire him for that. https://x.com/JDVance/status/1887900880143343633 https://x.com/JDVance/status/1887900880143343633 -- The part about the journalists is the operative part obviously.

9283409232 2y ago
We shouldn't treat people as if their words have no consequences either.
shitter 2y ago
It's not a lie. "I don’t think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid’s life" does two things: characterizes endorsements of racism and eugenics policies as "stupid social media activity", and asserts that exposure of such activity should not lead to someone losing their job. The part about not rewarding journalists who "destroy" people does not exist in a vacuum away from his downplaying of Elez's abhorrent racial views. If journalists had revealed Elez, for example, was a secret left-wing antifa supporter on Bluesky, I think we can reasonably doubt Vance's reaction would have been the same. Edit: Now that you've brought Vance's tweet into focus, it's also interesting that he does not think Elez is currently a "bad dude" when he's expressly stated a desire to normalize hatred against an entire ethnicity
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  Also (mis)characterizes a grown ass man as a kid
ks2048 2y ago
I'd like to see a a press conference: "Question for JD Vance - can you look at your Indian wife and children and then say a guy posting 'Normalize Indian hate' is not a 'bad dude'"?
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  Follow-up: "How is Elez both a child who shouldn't be held responsible for his actions from as recently as 2 months ago, but also the right person to be trusted with extensive access to government systems?"
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    Also fun how Trump has no problem saying that pro-palestine protestors should be deported (a vastly more harmful outcome than losing a job).
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
      "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." The doge boys are in-group, so they are protected, and the law will not be brought to bear against them. Simple as that.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        Who are you quoting?
        sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
        Frank Wilhoit, but not necessarily the Frank Wilhoit you might think when told it's Frank Wilhoit. https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservative...
    - 2y ago
sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
"I don't think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid's life" is incredibly dishonest and Vance should be held to account for this incredibly dishonest statement. The phrasing is intended to create the impression that the posts were made years ago, by some angry teenager, and it's not relevant to the person they are today. It's a way of downplaying the acts, creating distance between the person today and the acts at some unspecified point in the past. But we know these timeline details. Elez is not a "kid" now, he's 25. These posts were not made when he was 13, they were made last year when he was, I suppose, 24 going on 25. There are two conflicting perspectives being promoted by Musk, Vance, etc which IMO are in direct logical conflict: 1) This person's actions last year (going up to December 2024! Just 2 months ago!) are the actions of an irresponsible child and we shouldn't hold them accountable for those actions because they're not responsible enough to be held accountable for them. 2) This person is responsible enough right now to be operating at the highest levels of government. He can't be both. So which is he, really?
llamaimperative 2y ago
wat? We shouldn't reward journalists for finding and exposing morally repugnant people getting near the levers of state power? That is 100% exactly on-the-money the absolute ideal usecase for journalism.
Aurornis 2y ago
> but I don’t think stupid social media activity should ruin a kid’s life. He’s 25 or 26, given his birth year. The comments were posted months ago. This isn’t a “kid”! Calling him a kid is a propaganda tactic that got rolled out to try to confuse people about the true story. He’s an adult. He made the comments as an adult. > We shouldn’t reward journalists who try to destroy people. Ever. It’s extraordinarily irrational to think that we should ignore important information simply to spite journalists. There is nothing logical in that argument. It’s pure emotion and spite driven.

hagbard_c 2y ago

[flagged]

talldayo 2y ago
> What is so egregious about this that he needed to be pushed out You are cherrypicking. There are dozens of other posts, ranging from benign to South Park edgy to outright indefensible. In any case, they were shameful and he should be taking great efforts to apologize and prove he's a changed person if he actually regrets posting them. Broken clocks are right twice a day and all that.
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  Compared to what is daily being said about 'white men' in particular and 'men' in general those posts seem to be mostly par for the course. If the things he says about ${identity_group} are bad then so are the same things being said by people in high places about the aforementioned so a sizeable fraction of 'progressives' should [take] great efforts to apologize and prove [they're] changed person[s]. If you don't agree I'd like to know where the difference lies.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    I don't know what to tell you. It's racism, whether or not he's a white man or an Indian woman. If racism is "par for the course" then guess what, it's still racism. > If the things he says about ${identity_group} are bad then so are the same things being said by people in high places about the aforementioned so a sizeable fraction of 'progressives' Please, point to the spot where the progressives are being racist. Are you going to accuse Democrats of being racist against Krasnodar Krai for supporting Ukraine in their racist and illegal defense of Russian homeland? Accuse them of hating Palestinians more than Trump? Or no, you're going to cherry pick racist Buzzfeed columnists who are (somehow) an analog for an appointed government employee with privileged access to private data.
ks2048 2y ago
You picked one of his posts. The one that has gotten the most attention is "Normalize Indian hate".

sekai 2y ago

> For reference: JD Vance said that another DOGE staffer, who resigned after it was reported that he'd publicly come out in favor of racism, eugenics, and normalizing hate against Indian people on Twitter, should be rehired because it was just "stupid social media activity". To add to this, JD Vance's wife is Indian.