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Lowest temperature so far this winter has been -21°F and my Haier Arctic heat pumps kept going (although I concede it was only lower than -15°F for a few hours

Lowest temperature so far this winter has been -21°F and my Haier Arctic heat pumps kept going (although I concede it was only lower than -15°F for a few hours in the early morning while I was asleep). As for costs, they're pretty much on par with oil currently but my house isn't yet adequately insulated. I suspect once I have sufficient insulation and air sealing, and condensing gas hydronic heat for when the exterior temperature drops below 5°F (COP 2.0) the overall system will be very cost effective month to month. Although the upfront cost is nontrivial, so it's a payback period measured in decades. I also augment with a wood burning stove. For new construction that's properly air sealed and insulated, heat pumps with resistive baseboard backup would probably be sufficient.

wood_spirit 2y ago
Heat pumps are used extensively in Scandinavia, including up in the polar circle. These are usually ground source heat pumps, which is the essentially the same pump technology but connected to an in-ground loop instead of taking heat from outside air. Nowadays the air con uses the same heat pump to extract heat from the house and pump it into the ground, which not only chills the house but also helps a little recharging the ground source.
- jcgrillo 2y ago
  Yes, ground sourced is an excellent option, and I would also consider it for new construction in my area (Northern New England, US). The problem is finding installers that can do it.
  - wood_spirit 2y ago
    I had a large house that was heated by electric and wood and replaced them with a ground source heat pump with a loop zigzagging under my lawn. Relatively expensive to install but paid for itself in 5 years. YMMV. Good luck, hope it works out for you too :)
- superkuh 2y ago
  Ground source heat pumps install cost is very high when used in cold areas because of the frost depth caused excavation costs; significantly higher than the cost of the heat pump unit and parts themselves. It can be good if that disproportional initial cost is paid. But it's not the same class of purchase. This cost is reflected in the lack of demand and so lack of (solvent) installers. If the big initial cost is rolled into home construction it would be less daunting and more normal. So I expect newer homes to adopt heat pumps in cold areas but with little adoption in existing homes.
  - jcgrillo 2y ago
    I read somewhere that you can just drill a well and install a big coil?
    - superkuh 2y ago
      News to me. But probably similarly expensive once the environmental regulations for wells, etc, and it's excavation are considered. And even fewer installers who are qualified to do it.
      - wood_spirit 2y ago
        You are making this up as you go :) Yes they are often installed in bores into bedrock. All those pesky Scandinavians must be doing it because it makes economic sense. Step back and think that if you don’t know the details then all the excuses you can imagine are probably misleading or wrong.
        superkuh 2y ago
        I see you just skipped to responding to the end of the comment chain instead of reading it. Common mistake. Here is what you missed, >If the big initial cost is rolled into home construction it would be less daunting and more normal. So I expect newer homes to adopt heat pumps in cold areas but with little adoption in existing homes.
throw0101d 2y ago
> Lowest temperature so far this winter has been -21°F and my Haier Arctic heat pumps kept going […] Crikey: > For zones with exceptionally harsh winters, the Arctic mini split AC with heat pump ensures you stay warm even when temps get down to -31 degrees F. * https://www.haierappliances.com/ductless/arctic-next-gen-series https://www.haierappliances.com/ductless/arctic-next-gen-ser... -35˚C.

wood_spirit 2y ago

Heat pumps are used extensively in Scandinavia, including up in the polar circle. These are usually ground source heat pumps, which is the essentially the same pump technology but connected to an in-ground loop instead of taking heat from outside air. Nowadays the air con uses the same heat pump to extract heat from the house and pump it into the ground, which not only chills the house but also helps a little recharging the ground source.

jcgrillo 2y ago
Yes, ground sourced is an excellent option, and I would also consider it for new construction in my area (Northern New England, US). The problem is finding installers that can do it.
- wood_spirit 2y ago
  I had a large house that was heated by electric and wood and replaced them with a ground source heat pump with a loop zigzagging under my lawn. Relatively expensive to install but paid for itself in 5 years. YMMV. Good luck, hope it works out for you too :)
superkuh 2y ago
Ground source heat pumps install cost is very high when used in cold areas because of the frost depth caused excavation costs; significantly higher than the cost of the heat pump unit and parts themselves. It can be good if that disproportional initial cost is paid. But it's not the same class of purchase. This cost is reflected in the lack of demand and so lack of (solvent) installers. If the big initial cost is rolled into home construction it would be less daunting and more normal. So I expect newer homes to adopt heat pumps in cold areas but with little adoption in existing homes.
- jcgrillo 2y ago
  I read somewhere that you can just drill a well and install a big coil?
  - superkuh 2y ago
    News to me. But probably similarly expensive once the environmental regulations for wells, etc, and it's excavation are considered. And even fewer installers who are qualified to do it.
    - wood_spirit 2y ago
      You are making this up as you go :) Yes they are often installed in bores into bedrock. All those pesky Scandinavians must be doing it because it makes economic sense. Step back and think that if you don’t know the details then all the excuses you can imagine are probably misleading or wrong.
      - superkuh 2y ago
        I see you just skipped to responding to the end of the comment chain instead of reading it. Common mistake. Here is what you missed, >If the big initial cost is rolled into home construction it would be less daunting and more normal. So I expect newer homes to adopt heat pumps in cold areas but with little adoption in existing homes.

throw0101d 2y ago

> Lowest temperature so far this winter has been -21°F and my Haier Arctic heat pumps kept going […] Crikey: > For zones with exceptionally harsh winters, the Arctic mini split AC with heat pump ensures you stay warm even when temps get down to -31 degrees F. * https://www.haierappliances.com/ductless/arctic-next-gen-series https://www.haierappliances.com/ductless/arctic-next-gen-ser... -35˚C.