5 ms·

A drill bit that can also drive screws

110 points by surprisetalk 2y ago

tocs3 2y ago
An interesting idea. Mostly it makes me want to start a museum of weird tools that never really caught on / worked.
neilv 2y ago
In the demo video, are those pilot holes? How well does it start without them? And is he pushing more than he'd have to with a normal bit, to get it started?
- jfengel 2y ago
  He did appear to be applying more force than with a real drill bit. Maybe you get the job done in half the time but you're equally tired.
HideousKojima 2y ago
Doesn't really save 50% of the time if you have both a drill and an impact driver. And I'd rather use a drill to drill and an impact driver to drive, even though both tools can technically do either task.
- jfengel 2y ago
  Isn't an impact driver a bit much for an ordinary screw application, especially when there's a pilot hole? I often use two drills, or a drill and a screwdriver, when I'm doing a lot. My impact driver is mostly for situations where I need more force.
  - rhinoceraptor 2y ago
    I like having both, my M12 impact has a speed/torque setting which comes in handy for lighter uses, but the adjustable clutch of drills is also useful for driving screws. I think a lot of the frustration with using a drill to drive screws is just that the adjustable chuck is annoying to use with a hex shank driver bit, which is solved by drills with interchangeable chuck heads such as Festool's drills with their FastFix chuck system, the Bosch 12v small driver, or the Milwaukee installation driver.
    - jfengel 2y ago
      For a lot of my work (stage set construction, light house work) I use an adapter and extender, which helps in awkward corners. It also has a sleeve to hold screws steady. Sometimes I will use a drill bit with a hex shank, which is nice for swapping out but more expensive. I usually don't end up replacing them .
  - NegativeLatency 2y ago
    I find the impact driver is a bit nicer when using Phillips screws, the pause gives it time to re seat, but I generally try and avoid Phillips in the first place Also I think a lot of people have both a drill and an impact driver because they come in a sets at a bit of a discount.
andrewflnr 2y ago
50% savings seems very optimistic. If you drill all your holes, switch once, then drive all your screws, there's only a few seconds this thing can possibly save you. Then you consider that it takes a smidge more effort to drill with this sub-optimal bit, and it's really a stretch. There would have to be some aspect of the project's assembly sequence that required you to switch multiple times.
- hunter-gatherer 2y ago
  I've done a decent amount of remodel work and new builds. The workflow you've described rarely plays out in real jobs. This combo bit looks particularly useful for building things like decks.
  - mvdtnz 2y ago
    Would you use Philips head screws for a deck? I wouldn't. Even square drive is a pain if you need to back them out for any reason - you're sure to round out one in 20 or 30 of them, then RIP to any time you saved. I pretty much exclusively moved to star drive.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      Is there any reason the design can’t be adapted to a star drive? Is there not enough clearance between the points on the bit or not enough room for clearance with the extra drill flutes? Is it too flat on the head compared to phillips?
      - doubleg72 2y ago
        This design hardly works with Philips..
    - rpcope1 2y ago
      I can't believe people use anything other than Torx or something equivalent, especially for outside work. The difference between crappy regular wood screws and a box of GRK or Deckmate is night and day.
pzo 2y ago
Interesting concept but 50% saved time in the video is exaggeration - when you have 10 holes to drill and screw then just first drill 10 holes, change ending in your tool and then screw 10 holes. If you doing this whole day then have just 2 tools - you need this at least for backup if one tool breaks.
calmbonsai 2y ago
This is the industrial equivalent of DIY-why?! FWIW, woodworkers that care about speed for these operations (mostly niche furniture assembly) do them in parallel and simply have two drivers or use nail-guns with "glue nails".
- chefandy 2y ago
  I don’t think this are optimal for the craftspeople market. If I managed a bunch of rental properties or something and was doing quick-and-dirty fixes all day, I’d buy these if they worked. The hole size vs screw size seems weird. Also if I had to board up my windows for storms regularly. Or quick home projects outdoors. Plenty of times where speed of application and easy unscrewing are both useful.
  - calmbonsai 2y ago
    No they're not. I have, genuinely, no idea what market this targets. I concur on the hole vs screw size in the demo. For quick boarding applications just use modern nails and a modern nail gun. They've gotten really good and really cheap. This doesn't even speed up screw applications. Just use modern self-tapping wood screws. They've gotten really good and really cheap. If you're doing anything structural, GRK screws are absolutely insane, reusable, and practically indestructible--though not cheap.
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]
bragr 2y ago
This seems like it would be a disposable item once the tip wears, at least more disposable than a regular bit. Sharpening seems like it would be difficult and time consuming, if that is possible in the first place.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Supposing you're just drilling soft woods--like maybe you're building a deck or a fence or a shed--that could be a long time indeed.
- tdeck 2y ago
  When I saw this I immediately imagined some $4 AliExpress listing for "combination electric drill screwdriver versatile high quality multifunctional tool impact driver for home and auto DIY repair". It only has a home in a device that is overall destined for the trash.
userbinator 2y ago
I have used a screwdriver bit as a drill to make a small divot to help get self-tapping screws started into wood.
fuzzythinker 2y ago
The drill bit seems way too big for pilot holes.
mvdtnz 2y ago
No one is diving Philips head screws anymore. Happy for this guy and I hope he finds a market for this, but I can't imagine who would buy it.
- plasticchris 2y ago
  Phillips is still prevalent in drywall screws due to the low torque required. But you don’t need pilot holes for drywall screws.
  - analog31 2y ago
    Indeed, and with a drywall bit, the bit cams out at the exact moment when the screw is deep enough. Yes the bits wear out eventually, but it takes a long time.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  What are they driving instead?
  - avidiax 2y ago
    Posidriv, Torx or Square. Phillips has the annoying property that it is designed to cam out. That's OK for hand tools but generally ruins the bit when used in a power tool.
    - sho_hn 2y ago
      Informative, thank you :-)
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        But the cam out was made for power tools, auto industry specifically. These power tools (pneumatic) had a LOT of power and the screw was dimensioned to torque correctly during cam out.
  - deleted 2y ago
IvyMike 2y ago
The real hack is to have two drills. Seems excessive but once you do it you'll never go back.
- snypher 2y ago
  It's so nice to have a clutch setting on the driver, and the drill at full power. I hate having to rotate the collar back and forward and inevitably overdrive screws with the wrong setting. Edit: or even clicking that switch back and forward.
  - notpushkin 2y ago
    I think there are “smart” drills that switch modes when you change from a drill bit to a driver bit (and vice versa). Still inconvenient for frequent usage though.
    - tobyhinloopen 2y ago
      My smart drill loves to just gently screw in the screws until there’s some resistance and it suddenly ramps up and it hammers that screw through in a second haha. Every time I try it, I disable it again. I must be using it wrong, or that thing is way too powerful for me. It even managed to break the screw a few times.
- rpcope1 2y ago
  The Milwaukee M18 drill/driver pair is perfect for this, and typically what I use. Keep the jobber bit in the drill and the put the screws in with the hex driver.
- taurknaut 2y ago
  You can also attach them to each others bits and make them fight at the end of the job. Waste of money? Yes. A massive amount of fun for the boys? Absolutely.
barbazoo 2y ago
The diameter of the drill bit looks too large to be used for drilling pilot holes for screws compatible with the Philips head. Apart from Philips being a terrible choice for anything really.
- snypher 2y ago
  I agree, exactly what screw goes into the hole that has the same diameter as the screw head? I could see maybe those plastic drywall anchors with the oversized thread, but not a conventional fastener.
- jimbob45 2y ago
  I’m OOTL with all the Phillips hate in this thread. Is there a good reason to prefer other patterns or is it simply bandwagoning?
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    I have 2 different size Robertson bits but about 25 different sizes and shapes Philips bit. It’s super annoying. Use the “wrong” bit and it’s easy to strip the head. It’s just not a problem with Robertson or better yet, those star shaped ones.
    - GuB-42 2y ago
      There are literally 25 sizes of Torx bits (the star shaped ones), plus some variants ("security", plus, ttap, ...). That's actually one reason people complain about Torx compared to, say, Robertson. Unlike with Philips, you are less likely to use the wrong bit by accident though. One of the worst things with Philips is that there is a very similar and very popular drive called Pozidriv, and you sometimes find both on the same piece of equipment, adding to the confusion. Using the wrong driver kind of works, but with a good chance of stripping the head or damaging the bit.
      - barbazoo 2y ago
        You're right obviously, I shouldn't have used Torx as an example here. The only difference that someone else mentioned somewhere was that it's more difficult to use the wrong size one.
avidphantasm 2y ago
I’ve found that self-tapping screws and an impact driver give me the same effect.
- avemg 2y ago
  As long as you don't care about splitting the wood.
rpcope1 2y ago
Given how easy it is to blow out a Phillips head with a drill and a bit that's not perfect, and given how much difference a good 135 degree jobber bit from a reputable manufacturer like Norseman makes, I can't see this being very good at either in a real world scenario.
- m00x 2y ago
  Yeah but how many phillips heads are you buying that are carbide?
  - dmoy 2y ago
    I mean ... zero? I've stripped enough screws as it is, I don't really want to increase that ratio
- lostlogin 2y ago
  My eye is twitching. I was out on a bike last week - it’s easily the nicest possession I have and perhaps the nicest I’ll ever have, a Cervélo Soloist. The front rotor starting rubbing the calliper after a fast descent. I happened to have the correct tool and went to adjust the calliper and immediately stripped the screw head. I went to three bike shops, but all were too scared to touch it. I did as the my all said. I cut a slot in the screw with a Dremel and tried a large flathead screwdriver, but it still wouldn’t budge. So I made the sides flat and got it out with a massive spanner. Bike frame miraculously untouched. Satan himself arranged for these shit screws to be put in that amazing frame.
  - sonofhans 2y ago
    Oh, my hands are sweating just reading that. I think I’d rather land a 737 than take a dremel near that much Italian carbon.
    - gield 2y ago
      Cervélo is not an Italian company, they're Canadian. Its name is partially Italian as it's a portmanteau of cervello (brain in Italian) and vélo (bike in French).
gorgoiler 2y ago
Woodspur torx, self-piloting, self-countersinking screws: https://cdn.axminstertools.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6aa9e1e59bcc5998e1687ab5ba3e27a4/5/0/503323_xl.jpg https://cdn.axminstertools.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6... The tip is scalloped and sharp for precise driving and piloting, the threading is also sharp, as is the profiled head which does a very good job of counter sinking into soft timber. They are so sharp in fact that it’s very easy to accidentally drive them an inch deep. Comes wax lubricated in zinc plated or A4 marine stainless for external use.
robomartin 2y ago
This is one of those things where you end up with a suboptimal drill bit and a suboptimal screw driving bit. That said, it might sell in stores for your average homeowner to have around. In a prior life, for a number of years, I designed and built television studios (think datacenter, but more fun). In this context, aside from the technical equipment design, installation and commissioning, we often had to install highly customized pieces of technical furniture. Being an entrepreneur, I was not going to let a potentially nice profit center get through my fingers. So, we jumped right in to design and fabricate custom studio furniture for our clients. We built hundreds of pieces over many years. The very issue this specialized bit seeks to address was present every day, during building and installation of nearly everything we built. The simplest solution was to always have two tools: A drill and a driver. Sometimes you have two or more drills, each pre-loaded with the required bit size. The single driver could drive any screw, so you only needed one. That worked very well. To this day, decades later, that's exactly what I do when I work on any project, be it furniture making for home or home remodeling. It works. It's simple and you save a lot of time. We also tried various versions of quick release drill-bit and screw-bit holders. They work, but it is far easier to have a power drill and a power screw driver and just go. Oh, yes, and the drill bit portion of this invention is likely terrible, particularly if you need some degree of precision. There's a reason drill bits have a sharp or somewhat sharp point. And, for the same reason, this bit is likely to tear-up screws. Side point: I rarely use Philips screws any more. They absolutely suck. Torx is the way to go. You can but Torx head construction screws at Home Depot these days. They are strong (drywall screws suck), easy to drive and can even take the abuse of an impact driver if you need to go faster.
emptybits 2y ago
1. That pilot hole looks way too wide for the screw that follows it. A pilot hole should be wide enough to prevent binding, and sometimes for guidance or to prevent splitting, but it still needs to be tight enough so there's plenty of friction so the screw doesn't work loose. 2. Phillips needs to die. Maybe he can make that bit in Robertson. Or nearly anything else, really.
sonofhans 2y ago
Oh wow, a coffee-maker/fax-machine. I’ve used, collected, lost, sharpened, broken more drill bits and drivers than I can count. I’ve never wished for a worse drill bit attached to a worse screw driver. I bet they’ll sell a lot of these to homeowners with deck projects, or small softwood projects, and I bet they’ll work just fine for that. The use case limits how hard they can make these. Absolutely the philips head will get munged being used as a drill bit, and then it’ll cam out of screws at the wrong time. If your driver bit is much harder than your screws then the screws will get stripped. A stripped screw in something important is worse than a broken driver.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  I was about to write something similar. I am surprised by how many are taking this idea seriously, here on HN and I guess Good Design Australia.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    Driver bits wear down like drill bits when used in these kinds of settings, as well. So if you're working with wood, both of the functions might wear down equally, so there's no harm done.
    - cjbgkagh 2y ago
      I'm having a hard time understanding your statement. Both functions are done by the same head so if there is any wear from either function both functions are impaired. An entirely worse scenario than using two separate bits. This combo-bit is essentially an exceptionally dull 4 fluted drill bit. Any time possibly saved in not swapping bits is lost to the slower drilling speed due to the dullness. The fact that it only works with Phillips screw heads also slows things down due to the greater care needed to avoid stripping the screw head and the work required to remove a stripped screw head when it does occur. It's not like people have not though about how to do this faster it is just that there are existing alternative solutions that are far superior. Amortizing swaps over multiple screws, using a second drill, having a quick change chuck, using self tapping screws and possibly others that I don't know about.
rossjudson 2y ago
Let's see the Robertson version.
migf 2y ago
Going to simplify this for you: get two drills.
- loeg 2y ago
  Or just do all your drilling, change bits once, and do all the screwing.
silisili 2y ago
Not loving this. It looks like it would walk badly on anything but the softest woods as I don't see any kind of centered tip. Secondly, the head of a screw is by necessity much larger than the body. So you're going to end up drilling pilots too large for the screw, or else have an extremely weak bite on the head and round it out with any torque at all. Changing bits on a modern keyless chuck takes about 5 seconds. Throw one in your lips while you use the other. Or if you're like me and find yourself a power tool hoarder, just use a separate drill or impact for each.
steve_adams_86 2y ago
I'm picturing someone holding a screw by the shank to drill it into the wall, but slipping and puncturing their hand with the bit. There should be no cutting edges with force applied in the direction of your body parts. I might be atypical here but I rarely drive screws without a preplanned hole that's typically made in batches using a jig or machine, like a router or press. I rarely need to drive a screw directly into a random hole I just made. If I'm constructing ad-hoc, I'm almost certainly using nails. Not only for convenience, but because they tend to be better suited to this kind of construction. An exception might be drywall screws, but even then, you've got a totally different system established for doing that. I don't see the use case here. I'm also kind of stuck in my ways, though. I'm open to this making sense, but I'm definitely not an early adopter. I think I might have thought I wanted this before I learned to plan my builds better.
kittikitti 2y ago
There was an era when this might be feasible but since shrinkflation and the dilution of the alloys in screws, this would immediately ruin all the threads on the heads of screws. I have to be careful with screwdrivers I get from dollar store nowadays because after a few turns, the screw becomes stripped. This does work both ways where wood is as flimsy as cardboard and I can drill with a regular Phillips bit. The Consumer Protection Agency is a joke and if they actually did their jobs this invention would be a breakthrough.
jccooper 2y ago
Cute. But 3/16" is way too large a pilot hole for any reasonable screw. I think a #24 screw, which is the largest size of wood screw, has a 3/16" pilot size... and uses a #4 Philips, which is not the bit on this thing (and is sufficiently rare I don't even have one.)
silexia 2y ago
Take my money!
nullc 2y ago
Floor wax and dessert topping, all in one! More substantively this is too big a drill bit for the pilot holes for the screw size it fits... so it won't act as a tool-change timesaver. Also, forget phillips for new construction. Torx is much nicer.
el_benhameen 2y ago
Yeah, but if you skip this you have an excuse to buy two drills.
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
It's criminal that Phillips is used in any construction whatsoever, and it should practically be a IRC/ICC code violation to use it in framing.
DannyBee 2y ago
Anyone who cares about speed is using nailers or screw guns. Or has a drill and an impact driver. This really just turns one problem into a bunch. I'll point out the significant ones haven't seen so far 1. It has no self-centering capability, because you've removed any split point 2. The hole diameter is massive compared to the screw head you can drive because of how it must be designed. Either you are limited in the minimum size of the fastener (IE it's bigger than you want), or the drive is smaller than you want. Example: Let's say this thing will drill like a 1/4" inch hole and then you want to use a 5/16" fastener in that hole. You'd normally have a t-40 head on that fastener, but they literally can't. The width of just the inset torx portion (IE with no accounting for the bit taper and such) is > 1/4" (it's 6.6mm), so they have to undersize the drive. Probably all the way to t-20, maybe t-25 if they are lucky. That's insane. There is maybe a small range of diameters that hit the right sweet spot. 3. The effective point angle here is basically unusable for anything but soft to medium hardwoods. On top of that, because of the flutes they removed, and the fact that it is hard to keep sharp, it will cause more tearout. This will be made worse by having an effective 4 flute head instead of a 2 flute one. If this was in a drill press or a machine, it would be better than the 2 flute one, but in a drill/driver it's just going to add a lot of chatter and increase tearout. It's the same effect that happens if you try to use a 4 flute or 6 flute countersink in a drill driver vs a one or 2 flute one. The extra flutes make it worse because you can't hold it rigidly enough 4. Drilling and driving are very different applications - you aren't driving the screw in at 2000rpm, and you aren't trying to drill with super high torque. Expect to either snap lots of screws, or break lots of drills, depending which wrong tool you use :) 5. As it dulls, it will not just lose the ability to drill, but will start very quickly slipping when you try to drive the screw. 6. It is impossible to sharpen without custom jigs or automation. There are useful drill+something combos, but i do think we found them all already (IE drill+taps are useful, as are drill + c'bore and drill + c'sink) I don't think this is one of them.
quickthrowman 2y ago
This would be semi-useful for one single thing: drilling a 3/8” hole in gypsum board and inserting a drywall anchor, then using the Philips bit to drive a screw. Even then, I’d still swap actual bits. In every other case, a 3/8” diameter drill bit is going to need a fastener with a ridiculous diameter, large enough to have a bolt head head of a Philips head. I would never buy one of these, let alone for $20.
owenversteeg 2y ago
You can poorly drill a hole with a lot of things. Looks like there's a fair bit of pressure required to actually use this thing as a drill bit. Of course, the main use of this is to drill a lot of holes and drive fasteners at the same time... for which you would want Torx/Robinson/etc and a better drill bit. What everyone does now is just carry two tools, a drill and an impact, clip to your belt, and switch as needed. If you want to carry one tool that does both okay-ish, get an impact driver and a set of impact drill bits. You can quick-switch them pretty fast and you can even do it one-handed. I've never used it, but there's also the "WORX Switchdriver."
gorgoiler 2y ago
Here’s a better gadget that can quick flip between a countersinking drill bit and a bit driver. It’s modular, adjustable, maintainable, repairable: https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and-driver https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and... If you’re doing large amounts of countersink fastening into hardwood (where self-piloting will split and self-countersinking will splinter) then you’ll go through drivers and drills real fast.
dnel 2y ago
I'd rather use two power tools, wouldn't cost much more but would last a lot longer and do a better job
thumbsup-_- 2y ago
A good example of unnecessary over-engineering
sjducb 2y ago
If the drill bit slips off the screw it could go straight into your hand!
beAbU 2y ago
That drill diameter is way too large for the screw he's driving with it, the threads have barely any material to bite into! screw pilot holes are supposed to be smol.
- yccs27 2y ago
  I think it's not supposed to be a pilot hole, but a hole to put a partially-threaded screw through.
  - shaftway 2y ago
    I don't think the screw is biting into any material. You can see the screw drop pretty far into the hole. Keep in mind it isn't counter-sinking the hold at all. I think he's driving the screw into the substrate and setting it deep enough that it looks countersunk and isn't loose.
metalman 2y ago
was so ready to be snide and dismissive but that thing is tool kit magic not to mention is removes any excuse for just jamming screws in, without pre drilling 50% is an underestimate of time saved its also interesting in that there are very few true inovations in wood working , as the high point in wood technology is behind us, and the skills and knowledge are far less common today. Rewind 100 years, and peoples lives were constantly dependent on wooden structures holding together, cars, airplanes, ships, train bodys ,bridges, were made from wood.
davidpronk 2y ago
Mansfield's dual-drill also had a go at this non-issue. I had the opportunity to use it years ago. A bit cluncky and not really an improvement. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XLdAhQ-Hyac https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XLdAhQ-Hyac
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
libsofhn 2y ago
[flagged]
1970-01-01 2y ago
This very neatly fits the "solution looking for a problem" mindset.
shallmn 2y ago
What we really need https://imgur.com/a/Swft8DW https://imgur.com/a/Swft8DW
nuancebydefault 2y ago
I don't see it. - I think self drilling screws are much more of a timesaver. - Drill driver combis cannot have the same durability than separate bits, since driver bits are made of softer or at least more springy steel than drills. - Also the sharpness of the combi can be a problem for the screw. - Also torx bits will not jump over, while philips will now and then, and hence wear out more quickly.
m463 2y ago
lol, this reminds me of the point (heh) of philips screws - the screw will cam out (strip) to prevent over-torquing of the screw. Now it will just strip and then drill out the screw itself. personally I go the OTHER way - I like to use a decent clutch setting and better exact driver <-> fastener connection like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N2KJY77 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N2KJY77 or torx / star / allen depending closest I've gotten to multi-use driver bit is the flip phillips <-> flat double-ended bit and similar (just so I can carry one driver around sometimes)

110 points by surprisetalk 2y ago

An interesting idea. Mostly it makes me want to start a museum of weird tools that never really caught on / worked.

In the demo video, are those pilot holes? How well does it start without them? And is he pushing more than he'd have to with a normal bit, to get it started?

jfengel 2y ago
He did appear to be applying more force than with a real drill bit. Maybe you get the job done in half the time but you're equally tired.

HideousKojima 2y ago

Doesn't really save 50% of the time if you have both a drill and an impact driver. And I'd rather use a drill to drill and an impact driver to drive, even though both tools can technically do either task.

jfengel 2y ago
Isn't an impact driver a bit much for an ordinary screw application, especially when there's a pilot hole? I often use two drills, or a drill and a screwdriver, when I'm doing a lot. My impact driver is mostly for situations where I need more force.
- rhinoceraptor 2y ago
  I like having both, my M12 impact has a speed/torque setting which comes in handy for lighter uses, but the adjustable clutch of drills is also useful for driving screws. I think a lot of the frustration with using a drill to drive screws is just that the adjustable chuck is annoying to use with a hex shank driver bit, which is solved by drills with interchangeable chuck heads such as Festool's drills with their FastFix chuck system, the Bosch 12v small driver, or the Milwaukee installation driver.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    For a lot of my work (stage set construction, light house work) I use an adapter and extender, which helps in awkward corners. It also has a sleeve to hold screws steady. Sometimes I will use a drill bit with a hex shank, which is nice for swapping out but more expensive. I usually don't end up replacing them .
- NegativeLatency 2y ago
  I find the impact driver is a bit nicer when using Phillips screws, the pause gives it time to re seat, but I generally try and avoid Phillips in the first place Also I think a lot of people have both a drill and an impact driver because they come in a sets at a bit of a discount.

andrewflnr 2y ago

50% savings seems very optimistic. If you drill all your holes, switch once, then drive all your screws, there's only a few seconds this thing can possibly save you. Then you consider that it takes a smidge more effort to drill with this sub-optimal bit, and it's really a stretch. There would have to be some aspect of the project's assembly sequence that required you to switch multiple times.

hunter-gatherer 2y ago
I've done a decent amount of remodel work and new builds. The workflow you've described rarely plays out in real jobs. This combo bit looks particularly useful for building things like decks.
- mvdtnz 2y ago
  Would you use Philips head screws for a deck? I wouldn't. Even square drive is a pain if you need to back them out for any reason - you're sure to round out one in 20 or 30 of them, then RIP to any time you saved. I pretty much exclusively moved to star drive.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    Is there any reason the design can’t be adapted to a star drive? Is there not enough clearance between the points on the bit or not enough room for clearance with the extra drill flutes? Is it too flat on the head compared to phillips?
    - doubleg72 2y ago
      This design hardly works with Philips..
  - rpcope1 2y ago
    I can't believe people use anything other than Torx or something equivalent, especially for outside work. The difference between crappy regular wood screws and a box of GRK or Deckmate is night and day.

pzo 2y ago

Interesting concept but 50% saved time in the video is exaggeration - when you have 10 holes to drill and screw then just first drill 10 holes, change ending in your tool and then screw 10 holes. If you doing this whole day then have just 2 tools - you need this at least for backup if one tool breaks.

calmbonsai 2y ago

This is the industrial equivalent of DIY-why?! FWIW, woodworkers that care about speed for these operations (mostly niche furniture assembly) do them in parallel and simply have two drivers or use nail-guns with "glue nails".

chefandy 2y ago
I don’t think this are optimal for the craftspeople market. If I managed a bunch of rental properties or something and was doing quick-and-dirty fixes all day, I’d buy these if they worked. The hole size vs screw size seems weird. Also if I had to board up my windows for storms regularly. Or quick home projects outdoors. Plenty of times where speed of application and easy unscrewing are both useful.
- calmbonsai 2y ago
  No they're not. I have, genuinely, no idea what market this targets. I concur on the hole vs screw size in the demo. For quick boarding applications just use modern nails and a modern nail gun. They've gotten really good and really cheap. This doesn't even speed up screw applications. Just use modern self-tapping wood screws. They've gotten really good and really cheap. If you're doing anything structural, GRK screws are absolutely insane, reusable, and practically indestructible--though not cheap.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]

bragr 2y ago

This seems like it would be a disposable item once the tip wears, at least more disposable than a regular bit. Sharpening seems like it would be difficult and time consuming, if that is possible in the first place.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
Supposing you're just drilling soft woods--like maybe you're building a deck or a fence or a shed--that could be a long time indeed.
tdeck 2y ago
When I saw this I immediately imagined some $4 AliExpress listing for "combination electric drill screwdriver versatile high quality multifunctional tool impact driver for home and auto DIY repair". It only has a home in a device that is overall destined for the trash.

userbinator 2y ago

I have used a screwdriver bit as a drill to make a small divot to help get self-tapping screws started into wood.

fuzzythinker 2y ago

The drill bit seems way too big for pilot holes.

mvdtnz 2y ago

No one is diving Philips head screws anymore. Happy for this guy and I hope he finds a market for this, but I can't imagine who would buy it.

plasticchris 2y ago
Phillips is still prevalent in drywall screws due to the low torque required. But you don’t need pilot holes for drywall screws.
- analog31 2y ago
  Indeed, and with a drywall bit, the bit cams out at the exact moment when the screw is deep enough. Yes the bits wear out eventually, but it takes a long time.
sho_hn 2y ago
What are they driving instead?
- avidiax 2y ago
  Posidriv, Torx or Square. Phillips has the annoying property that it is designed to cam out. That's OK for hand tools but generally ruins the bit when used in a power tool.
  - sho_hn 2y ago
    Informative, thank you :-)
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      But the cam out was made for power tools, auto industry specifically. These power tools (pneumatic) had a LOT of power and the screw was dimensioned to torque correctly during cam out.
- deleted 2y ago

IvyMike 2y ago

The real hack is to have two drills. Seems excessive but once you do it you'll never go back.

snypher 2y ago
It's so nice to have a clutch setting on the driver, and the drill at full power. I hate having to rotate the collar back and forward and inevitably overdrive screws with the wrong setting. Edit: or even clicking that switch back and forward.
- notpushkin 2y ago
  I think there are “smart” drills that switch modes when you change from a drill bit to a driver bit (and vice versa). Still inconvenient for frequent usage though.
  - tobyhinloopen 2y ago
    My smart drill loves to just gently screw in the screws until there’s some resistance and it suddenly ramps up and it hammers that screw through in a second haha. Every time I try it, I disable it again. I must be using it wrong, or that thing is way too powerful for me. It even managed to break the screw a few times.
rpcope1 2y ago
The Milwaukee M18 drill/driver pair is perfect for this, and typically what I use. Keep the jobber bit in the drill and the put the screws in with the hex driver.
taurknaut 2y ago
You can also attach them to each others bits and make them fight at the end of the job. Waste of money? Yes. A massive amount of fun for the boys? Absolutely.

barbazoo 2y ago

The diameter of the drill bit looks too large to be used for drilling pilot holes for screws compatible with the Philips head. Apart from Philips being a terrible choice for anything really.

snypher 2y ago
I agree, exactly what screw goes into the hole that has the same diameter as the screw head? I could see maybe those plastic drywall anchors with the oversized thread, but not a conventional fastener.
jimbob45 2y ago
I’m OOTL with all the Phillips hate in this thread. Is there a good reason to prefer other patterns or is it simply bandwagoning?
- barbazoo 2y ago
  I have 2 different size Robertson bits but about 25 different sizes and shapes Philips bit. It’s super annoying. Use the “wrong” bit and it’s easy to strip the head. It’s just not a problem with Robertson or better yet, those star shaped ones.
  - GuB-42 2y ago
    There are literally 25 sizes of Torx bits (the star shaped ones), plus some variants ("security", plus, ttap, ...). That's actually one reason people complain about Torx compared to, say, Robertson. Unlike with Philips, you are less likely to use the wrong bit by accident though. One of the worst things with Philips is that there is a very similar and very popular drive called Pozidriv, and you sometimes find both on the same piece of equipment, adding to the confusion. Using the wrong driver kind of works, but with a good chance of stripping the head or damaging the bit.
    - barbazoo 2y ago
      You're right obviously, I shouldn't have used Torx as an example here. The only difference that someone else mentioned somewhere was that it's more difficult to use the wrong size one.

avidphantasm 2y ago

I’ve found that self-tapping screws and an impact driver give me the same effect.

avemg 2y ago
As long as you don't care about splitting the wood.

rpcope1 2y ago

Given how easy it is to blow out a Phillips head with a drill and a bit that's not perfect, and given how much difference a good 135 degree jobber bit from a reputable manufacturer like Norseman makes, I can't see this being very good at either in a real world scenario.

m00x 2y ago
Yeah but how many phillips heads are you buying that are carbide?
- dmoy 2y ago
  I mean ... zero? I've stripped enough screws as it is, I don't really want to increase that ratio
lostlogin 2y ago
My eye is twitching. I was out on a bike last week - it’s easily the nicest possession I have and perhaps the nicest I’ll ever have, a Cervélo Soloist. The front rotor starting rubbing the calliper after a fast descent. I happened to have the correct tool and went to adjust the calliper and immediately stripped the screw head. I went to three bike shops, but all were too scared to touch it. I did as the my all said. I cut a slot in the screw with a Dremel and tried a large flathead screwdriver, but it still wouldn’t budge. So I made the sides flat and got it out with a massive spanner. Bike frame miraculously untouched. Satan himself arranged for these shit screws to be put in that amazing frame.
- sonofhans 2y ago
  Oh, my hands are sweating just reading that. I think I’d rather land a 737 than take a dremel near that much Italian carbon.
  - gield 2y ago
    Cervélo is not an Italian company, they're Canadian. Its name is partially Italian as it's a portmanteau of cervello (brain in Italian) and vélo (bike in French).

gorgoiler 2y ago

Woodspur torx, self-piloting, self-countersinking screws: https://cdn.axminstertools.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6aa9e1e59bcc5998e1687ab5ba3e27a4/5/0/503323_xl.jpg https://cdn.axminstertools.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6... The tip is scalloped and sharp for precise driving and piloting, the threading is also sharp, as is the profiled head which does a very good job of counter sinking into soft timber. They are so sharp in fact that it’s very easy to accidentally drive them an inch deep. Comes wax lubricated in zinc plated or A4 marine stainless for external use.

robomartin 2y ago

This is one of those things where you end up with a suboptimal drill bit and a suboptimal screw driving bit. That said, it might sell in stores for your average homeowner to have around. In a prior life, for a number of years, I designed and built television studios (think datacenter, but more fun). In this context, aside from the technical equipment design, installation and commissioning, we often had to install highly customized pieces of technical furniture. Being an entrepreneur, I was not going to let a potentially nice profit center get through my fingers. So, we jumped right in to design and fabricate custom studio furniture for our clients. We built hundreds of pieces over many years. The very issue this specialized bit seeks to address was present every day, during building and installation of nearly everything we built. The simplest solution was to always have two tools: A drill and a driver. Sometimes you have two or more drills, each pre-loaded with the required bit size. The single driver could drive any screw, so you only needed one. That worked very well. To this day, decades later, that's exactly what I do when I work on any project, be it furniture making for home or home remodeling. It works. It's simple and you save a lot of time. We also tried various versions of quick release drill-bit and screw-bit holders. They work, but it is far easier to have a power drill and a power screw driver and just go. Oh, yes, and the drill bit portion of this invention is likely terrible, particularly if you need some degree of precision. There's a reason drill bits have a sharp or somewhat sharp point. And, for the same reason, this bit is likely to tear-up screws. Side point: I rarely use Philips screws any more. They absolutely suck. Torx is the way to go. You can but Torx head construction screws at Home Depot these days. They are strong (drywall screws suck), easy to drive and can even take the abuse of an impact driver if you need to go faster.

emptybits 2y ago

1. That pilot hole looks way too wide for the screw that follows it. A pilot hole should be wide enough to prevent binding, and sometimes for guidance or to prevent splitting, but it still needs to be tight enough so there's plenty of friction so the screw doesn't work loose. 2. Phillips needs to die. Maybe he can make that bit in Robertson. Or nearly anything else, really.

sonofhans 2y ago

Oh wow, a coffee-maker/fax-machine. I’ve used, collected, lost, sharpened, broken more drill bits and drivers than I can count. I’ve never wished for a worse drill bit attached to a worse screw driver. I bet they’ll sell a lot of these to homeowners with deck projects, or small softwood projects, and I bet they’ll work just fine for that. The use case limits how hard they can make these. Absolutely the philips head will get munged being used as a drill bit, and then it’ll cam out of screws at the wrong time. If your driver bit is much harder than your screws then the screws will get stripped. A stripped screw in something important is worse than a broken driver.

cjbgkagh 2y ago
I was about to write something similar. I am surprised by how many are taking this idea seriously, here on HN and I guess Good Design Australia.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Driver bits wear down like drill bits when used in these kinds of settings, as well. So if you're working with wood, both of the functions might wear down equally, so there's no harm done.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    I'm having a hard time understanding your statement. Both functions are done by the same head so if there is any wear from either function both functions are impaired. An entirely worse scenario than using two separate bits. This combo-bit is essentially an exceptionally dull 4 fluted drill bit. Any time possibly saved in not swapping bits is lost to the slower drilling speed due to the dullness. The fact that it only works with Phillips screw heads also slows things down due to the greater care needed to avoid stripping the screw head and the work required to remove a stripped screw head when it does occur. It's not like people have not though about how to do this faster it is just that there are existing alternative solutions that are far superior. Amortizing swaps over multiple screws, using a second drill, having a quick change chuck, using self tapping screws and possibly others that I don't know about.

rossjudson 2y ago

Let's see the Robertson version.

migf 2y ago

Going to simplify this for you: get two drills.

loeg 2y ago
Or just do all your drilling, change bits once, and do all the screwing.

silisili 2y ago

Not loving this. It looks like it would walk badly on anything but the softest woods as I don't see any kind of centered tip. Secondly, the head of a screw is by necessity much larger than the body. So you're going to end up drilling pilots too large for the screw, or else have an extremely weak bite on the head and round it out with any torque at all. Changing bits on a modern keyless chuck takes about 5 seconds. Throw one in your lips while you use the other. Or if you're like me and find yourself a power tool hoarder, just use a separate drill or impact for each.

steve_adams_86 2y ago

I'm picturing someone holding a screw by the shank to drill it into the wall, but slipping and puncturing their hand with the bit. There should be no cutting edges with force applied in the direction of your body parts. I might be atypical here but I rarely drive screws without a preplanned hole that's typically made in batches using a jig or machine, like a router or press. I rarely need to drive a screw directly into a random hole I just made. If I'm constructing ad-hoc, I'm almost certainly using nails. Not only for convenience, but because they tend to be better suited to this kind of construction. An exception might be drywall screws, but even then, you've got a totally different system established for doing that. I don't see the use case here. I'm also kind of stuck in my ways, though. I'm open to this making sense, but I'm definitely not an early adopter. I think I might have thought I wanted this before I learned to plan my builds better.

kittikitti 2y ago

There was an era when this might be feasible but since shrinkflation and the dilution of the alloys in screws, this would immediately ruin all the threads on the heads of screws. I have to be careful with screwdrivers I get from dollar store nowadays because after a few turns, the screw becomes stripped. This does work both ways where wood is as flimsy as cardboard and I can drill with a regular Phillips bit. The Consumer Protection Agency is a joke and if they actually did their jobs this invention would be a breakthrough.

jccooper 2y ago

Cute. But 3/16" is way too large a pilot hole for any reasonable screw. I think a #24 screw, which is the largest size of wood screw, has a 3/16" pilot size... and uses a #4 Philips, which is not the bit on this thing (and is sufficiently rare I don't even have one.)

silexia 2y ago

Take my money!

nullc 2y ago

Floor wax and dessert topping, all in one! More substantively this is too big a drill bit for the pilot holes for the screw size it fits... so it won't act as a tool-change timesaver. Also, forget phillips for new construction. Torx is much nicer.

el_benhameen 2y ago

Yeah, but if you skip this you have an excuse to buy two drills.

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

It's criminal that Phillips is used in any construction whatsoever, and it should practically be a IRC/ICC code violation to use it in framing.

DannyBee 2y ago

Anyone who cares about speed is using nailers or screw guns. Or has a drill and an impact driver. This really just turns one problem into a bunch. I'll point out the significant ones haven't seen so far 1. It has no self-centering capability, because you've removed any split point 2. The hole diameter is massive compared to the screw head you can drive because of how it must be designed. Either you are limited in the minimum size of the fastener (IE it's bigger than you want), or the drive is smaller than you want. Example: Let's say this thing will drill like a 1/4" inch hole and then you want to use a 5/16" fastener in that hole. You'd normally have a t-40 head on that fastener, but they literally can't. The width of just the inset torx portion (IE with no accounting for the bit taper and such) is > 1/4" (it's 6.6mm), so they have to undersize the drive. Probably all the way to t-20, maybe t-25 if they are lucky. That's insane. There is maybe a small range of diameters that hit the right sweet spot. 3. The effective point angle here is basically unusable for anything but soft to medium hardwoods. On top of that, because of the flutes they removed, and the fact that it is hard to keep sharp, it will cause more tearout. This will be made worse by having an effective 4 flute head instead of a 2 flute one. If this was in a drill press or a machine, it would be better than the 2 flute one, but in a drill/driver it's just going to add a lot of chatter and increase tearout. It's the same effect that happens if you try to use a 4 flute or 6 flute countersink in a drill driver vs a one or 2 flute one. The extra flutes make it worse because you can't hold it rigidly enough 4. Drilling and driving are very different applications - you aren't driving the screw in at 2000rpm, and you aren't trying to drill with super high torque. Expect to either snap lots of screws, or break lots of drills, depending which wrong tool you use :) 5. As it dulls, it will not just lose the ability to drill, but will start very quickly slipping when you try to drive the screw. 6. It is impossible to sharpen without custom jigs or automation. There are useful drill+something combos, but i do think we found them all already (IE drill+taps are useful, as are drill + c'bore and drill + c'sink) I don't think this is one of them.

quickthrowman 2y ago

This would be semi-useful for one single thing: drilling a 3/8” hole in gypsum board and inserting a drywall anchor, then using the Philips bit to drive a screw. Even then, I’d still swap actual bits. In every other case, a 3/8” diameter drill bit is going to need a fastener with a ridiculous diameter, large enough to have a bolt head head of a Philips head. I would never buy one of these, let alone for $20.

owenversteeg 2y ago

You can poorly drill a hole with a lot of things. Looks like there's a fair bit of pressure required to actually use this thing as a drill bit. Of course, the main use of this is to drill a lot of holes and drive fasteners at the same time... for which you would want Torx/Robinson/etc and a better drill bit. What everyone does now is just carry two tools, a drill and an impact, clip to your belt, and switch as needed. If you want to carry one tool that does both okay-ish, get an impact driver and a set of impact drill bits. You can quick-switch them pretty fast and you can even do it one-handed. I've never used it, but there's also the "WORX Switchdriver."

gorgoiler 2y ago

Here’s a better gadget that can quick flip between a countersinking drill bit and a bit driver. It’s modular, adjustable, maintainable, repairable: https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and-driver https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and... If you’re doing large amounts of countersink fastening into hardwood (where self-piloting will split and self-countersinking will splinter) then you’ll go through drivers and drills real fast.

dnel 2y ago

I'd rather use two power tools, wouldn't cost much more but would last a lot longer and do a better job

thumbsup-_- 2y ago

A good example of unnecessary over-engineering

sjducb 2y ago

If the drill bit slips off the screw it could go straight into your hand!

beAbU 2y ago

That drill diameter is way too large for the screw he's driving with it, the threads have barely any material to bite into! screw pilot holes are supposed to be smol.

yccs27 2y ago
I think it's not supposed to be a pilot hole, but a hole to put a partially-threaded screw through.
- shaftway 2y ago
  I don't think the screw is biting into any material. You can see the screw drop pretty far into the hole. Keep in mind it isn't counter-sinking the hold at all. I think he's driving the screw into the substrate and setting it deep enough that it looks countersunk and isn't loose.

metalman 2y ago

was so ready to be snide and dismissive but that thing is tool kit magic not to mention is removes any excuse for just jamming screws in, without pre drilling 50% is an underestimate of time saved its also interesting in that there are very few true inovations in wood working , as the high point in wood technology is behind us, and the skills and knowledge are far less common today. Rewind 100 years, and peoples lives were constantly dependent on wooden structures holding together, cars, airplanes, ships, train bodys ,bridges, were made from wood.

davidpronk 2y ago

Mansfield's dual-drill also had a go at this non-issue. I had the opportunity to use it years ago. A bit cluncky and not really an improvement. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XLdAhQ-Hyac https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XLdAhQ-Hyac

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

libsofhn 2y ago

[flagged]

1970-01-01 2y ago

This very neatly fits the "solution looking for a problem" mindset.

shallmn 2y ago

What we really need https://imgur.com/a/Swft8DW https://imgur.com/a/Swft8DW

nuancebydefault 2y ago

I don't see it. - I think self drilling screws are much more of a timesaver. - Drill driver combis cannot have the same durability than separate bits, since driver bits are made of softer or at least more springy steel than drills. - Also the sharpness of the combi can be a problem for the screw. - Also torx bits will not jump over, while philips will now and then, and hence wear out more quickly.

m463 2y ago

lol, this reminds me of the point (heh) of philips screws - the screw will cam out (strip) to prevent over-torquing of the screw. Now it will just strip and then drill out the screw itself. personally I go the OTHER way - I like to use a decent clutch setting and better exact driver <-> fastener connection like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N2KJY77 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N2KJY77 or torx / star / allen depending closest I've gotten to multi-use driver bit is the flip phillips <-> flat double-ended bit and similar (just so I can carry one driver around sometimes)