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This is awesome. But Apple needs to get their act together. Window management, specially in multi monitor/ space setups is unbelievably bad. What is the purpos

This is awesome. But Apple needs to get their act together. Window management, specially in multi monitor/ space setups is unbelievably bad. What is the purpose of the dock? It does not tell you what apps have windows visible, preview these windows or inform you where these windows are. Absolute waste of screen real estate. And to add to the injury they seized another 10% of the horizontal space for the even more useless stage manager.

rplnt 2y ago
They make more money that way, by having terrible desktop ux that needs to be supplemented with dozen of extra apps. Not sure if that was their intention, but they do.
- JSR_FDED 2y ago
  How on earth do “they” make more money that way? The support costs of different users on different window management solutions obliterates any small fraction of application sales they earn on the App Store.
- 10729287 2y ago
  Not sure they are doing extra money because official apps are generally opened by free, community driven, ones, but yeah, this is my main issue with Macos nowadays, official apps are so flawed the os needs to be heavily customed out of the box.
wojciech-kulik 2y ago
Totally agree. I even created a feature request to allow disabling animation when switching between spaces. But I don't have any faith in them. I enabled auto-hiding of the Dock. When I use FlashSpace I don't need to see the dock anymore because I know what is where. I also integrated the number of messages on my Sketchybar, so that I know if there is a new SMS or Slack message without Dock.
- loremm 2y ago
  Not for speed (that was only allowed in past versions of macos) but even now, you can go Accessibilty -> Reduce motion blur and it at least won't do the horrible slide animation, just fade in and out. The other one made me nauseous if I was doing it so often
cosmic_cheese 2y ago
On the other hand, the ability to switch virtual desktops independently between monitors as macOS has been able to for ages remains absent on Windows and is present only on some Linux desktops which feels insane to me. That single feature reduces the amount of twiddling with window arrangements and such I need to do to almost nothing.
- hysan 2y ago
  Every year I spend a month trying out Linux distros to see if it’s in a good enough place to switch back to. Every time I do this, I’m surprised by how few desktop environments supports this. Either it’s not popular or using multiple monitors isn’t common. This isn’t the only reason I haven’t switched back, but it’s one of the more surprising ones because it feels so natural to treat monitors and workspaces like this.
  - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
    My guess is that among Linux users, multimonitor is unusual. Even most Linux laptop users seem to prefer single monitor clamshell mode vs. keeping the laptop open as a secondary screen. There’s a fair number of Macbook users who do clamshell too but secondary-laptop-screen setups are much much more common in the Mac crowd.
    - doubled112 2y ago
      At some point I realized I’d rather one large 4K screen to any multi monitor setup I ever had. I’m not sure if it’s a coping mechanism for using Linux desktops or not, but it does avoid a few issues. It also makes window management simpler in the sense I can just sprawl them out and still see everything. Kind of like moving your project from a small desk to a big kitchen table. I tend to have two workspaces. One for what I’m doing. One for background stuff, like mail and music.
      - zuhsetaqi 2y ago
        I really like having 2 4K 27" displays. I even have a third monitor in vertical orientation but don’t use it that often. Most often I have my editor on one screen and my browser with developer tools on the other screen.
escapecharacter 2y ago
I’m noticing that every single time I wake my (recent) MacBook from sleep, it forgets it’s attached to external monitors for at least 10 seconds. So, a bunch of windows do this confusing jump around and I have to wait for them to settle before I started anything!
- Tagbert 2y ago
  It depends on how long that external monitor takes to wake up and respond to the display connection to confirm that it is there. If the monitor is still active then that is almost instant.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  I had this problem with a cheap monitor I had to use at the office for a while. Not a problem with any other monitor I’ve used. It’s the monitor taking a long time to wake up.
zuhsetaqi 2y ago
> What is the purpose of the dock? It’s an app launcher. Since I only open app with Spotlight/Alfred, my dock auto hides and doesn’t waste any real estate. The stage manager in my opinion should have been iPad only. But if you ignore the button in the control center it’s easy to forget that it even exists.
- Brajeshwar 2y ago
  This is also what I do. The auto-hidden Dock is my way to check for Open apps (at times). Otherwise, I still do Alfred/Spotlight to go to an App.
  - 10729287 2y ago
    Are you aware of the AltTab app ? Highly customisable and best way to switch between opened windows on Macos. https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ Couldn't go back.
    - Brajeshwar 2y ago
      I love the idea of staying with Native Apps even if I have to learn additional commands, shortcuts, etc. Then, I stay with as few apps as I can use as possible. I used to and am sometimes tempted to wander and start using another additional app, but I try to resist if that means I make a little extra effort—typing out the app’s name in Alfred/Spotlight. Anyways, thanks for the suggestion.
      - 10729287 2y ago
        Thank you for your comment. I can totally understand. I’m always tempted to stop worrying and go « default mode » for everything as I have a tendency to trap myself in rabbit holes configuring and fine tuning but sometimed it's too hard to resist !
fujinghg 2y ago
Just tell the dock to auto hide. I don’t use stage manager. I don’t know why it exists to be fair. Window management is “meh” but I don’t care. I use virtual desktops and the desktop Apple magic touchpad. Good enough.
creativenolo 2y ago
This stuff is so divisive. You can find seemingly a roughly equal number of people who passionately think the opposite on many of these very-different-from-windows UX choices. I’m one. The dock tells me what apps are running and available. There are other ways to find the windows, and running apps don’t need windows.
- whatever1 2y ago
  Every single running UI app needs a window. The ones that run in the background and do not need a full fledged window go in the menubar next to the clock.
  - philistine 2y ago
    That's how Windows does it, but macOS just does it differently. Is it better? Depends who you ask.
  - newdee 2y ago
    > Every single running UI app needs a window. I’m sorry, but this is false. The default/conventional behaviour is for apps to keep running even if all their windows are closed. There’s actually a toggle for this behaviour on the app delegate.[0] You may be thinking about LSUIElement, which is loosely related, but doesn’t mandate that windowless apps must quit. [1] 0: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsapplicationdelegate/applicationshouldterminateafterlastwindowclosed(_:)?language=swift https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsapplicati... 1: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/information-property-list/lsuielement https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/in...
    - whatever1 2y ago
      Apologies, I was not clear. Obviously in MacOS an app can be open without a window. My question is why? What is the point of having for example Word or Safari running without a window? If they want to run a background task that requires some user interaction (eg outlook checking email and calendar), the menubar is the perfect place for it. In the past the argument was that people want their apps warm started so that they open faster. But this is a moot point in 2025 with SSDs of pulling 5gb/s and tons of ram that allow for ample intelligent caching.
Aurornis 2y ago
> What is the purpose of the dock? It does not tell you what apps have windows visible, preview these windows or inform you where these windows are. Absolute waste of screen real estate. Auto-hide. First thing I turn on when I do a fresh install. Some keep it as an app launcher and quick switcher. I prefer to only open it when necessary.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

rplnt 2y ago

They make more money that way, by having terrible desktop ux that needs to be supplemented with dozen of extra apps. Not sure if that was their intention, but they do.

JSR_FDED 2y ago
How on earth do “they” make more money that way? The support costs of different users on different window management solutions obliterates any small fraction of application sales they earn on the App Store.
10729287 2y ago
Not sure they are doing extra money because official apps are generally opened by free, community driven, ones, but yeah, this is my main issue with Macos nowadays, official apps are so flawed the os needs to be heavily customed out of the box.

wojciech-kulik 2y ago

Totally agree. I even created a feature request to allow disabling animation when switching between spaces. But I don't have any faith in them. I enabled auto-hiding of the Dock. When I use FlashSpace I don't need to see the dock anymore because I know what is where. I also integrated the number of messages on my Sketchybar, so that I know if there is a new SMS or Slack message without Dock.

loremm 2y ago
Not for speed (that was only allowed in past versions of macos) but even now, you can go Accessibilty -> Reduce motion blur and it at least won't do the horrible slide animation, just fade in and out. The other one made me nauseous if I was doing it so often

cosmic_cheese 2y ago

On the other hand, the ability to switch virtual desktops independently between monitors as macOS has been able to for ages remains absent on Windows and is present only on some Linux desktops which feels insane to me. That single feature reduces the amount of twiddling with window arrangements and such I need to do to almost nothing.

hysan 2y ago
Every year I spend a month trying out Linux distros to see if it’s in a good enough place to switch back to. Every time I do this, I’m surprised by how few desktop environments supports this. Either it’s not popular or using multiple monitors isn’t common. This isn’t the only reason I haven’t switched back, but it’s one of the more surprising ones because it feels so natural to treat monitors and workspaces like this.
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  My guess is that among Linux users, multimonitor is unusual. Even most Linux laptop users seem to prefer single monitor clamshell mode vs. keeping the laptop open as a secondary screen. There’s a fair number of Macbook users who do clamshell too but secondary-laptop-screen setups are much much more common in the Mac crowd.
  - doubled112 2y ago
    At some point I realized I’d rather one large 4K screen to any multi monitor setup I ever had. I’m not sure if it’s a coping mechanism for using Linux desktops or not, but it does avoid a few issues. It also makes window management simpler in the sense I can just sprawl them out and still see everything. Kind of like moving your project from a small desk to a big kitchen table. I tend to have two workspaces. One for what I’m doing. One for background stuff, like mail and music.
    - zuhsetaqi 2y ago
      I really like having 2 4K 27" displays. I even have a third monitor in vertical orientation but don’t use it that often. Most often I have my editor on one screen and my browser with developer tools on the other screen.

escapecharacter 2y ago

I’m noticing that every single time I wake my (recent) MacBook from sleep, it forgets it’s attached to external monitors for at least 10 seconds. So, a bunch of windows do this confusing jump around and I have to wait for them to settle before I started anything!

Tagbert 2y ago
It depends on how long that external monitor takes to wake up and respond to the display connection to confirm that it is there. If the monitor is still active then that is almost instant.
Aurornis 2y ago
I had this problem with a cheap monitor I had to use at the office for a while. Not a problem with any other monitor I’ve used. It’s the monitor taking a long time to wake up.

zuhsetaqi 2y ago

> What is the purpose of the dock? It’s an app launcher. Since I only open app with Spotlight/Alfred, my dock auto hides and doesn’t waste any real estate. The stage manager in my opinion should have been iPad only. But if you ignore the button in the control center it’s easy to forget that it even exists.

Brajeshwar 2y ago
This is also what I do. The auto-hidden Dock is my way to check for Open apps (at times). Otherwise, I still do Alfred/Spotlight to go to an App.
- 10729287 2y ago
  Are you aware of the AltTab app ? Highly customisable and best way to switch between opened windows on Macos. https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ Couldn't go back.
  - Brajeshwar 2y ago
    I love the idea of staying with Native Apps even if I have to learn additional commands, shortcuts, etc. Then, I stay with as few apps as I can use as possible. I used to and am sometimes tempted to wander and start using another additional app, but I try to resist if that means I make a little extra effort—typing out the app’s name in Alfred/Spotlight. Anyways, thanks for the suggestion.
    - 10729287 2y ago
      Thank you for your comment. I can totally understand. I’m always tempted to stop worrying and go « default mode » for everything as I have a tendency to trap myself in rabbit holes configuring and fine tuning but sometimed it's too hard to resist !

fujinghg 2y ago

Just tell the dock to auto hide. I don’t use stage manager. I don’t know why it exists to be fair. Window management is “meh” but I don’t care. I use virtual desktops and the desktop Apple magic touchpad. Good enough.

creativenolo 2y ago

This stuff is so divisive. You can find seemingly a roughly equal number of people who passionately think the opposite on many of these very-different-from-windows UX choices. I’m one. The dock tells me what apps are running and available. There are other ways to find the windows, and running apps don’t need windows.

whatever1 2y ago
Every single running UI app needs a window. The ones that run in the background and do not need a full fledged window go in the menubar next to the clock.
- philistine 2y ago
  That's how Windows does it, but macOS just does it differently. Is it better? Depends who you ask.
- newdee 2y ago
  > Every single running UI app needs a window. I’m sorry, but this is false. The default/conventional behaviour is for apps to keep running even if all their windows are closed. There’s actually a toggle for this behaviour on the app delegate.[0] You may be thinking about LSUIElement, which is loosely related, but doesn’t mandate that windowless apps must quit. [1] 0: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsapplicationdelegate/applicationshouldterminateafterlastwindowclosed(_:)?language=swift https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsapplicati... 1: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/information-property-list/lsuielement https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/in...
  - whatever1 2y ago
    Apologies, I was not clear. Obviously in MacOS an app can be open without a window. My question is why? What is the point of having for example Word or Safari running without a window? If they want to run a background task that requires some user interaction (eg outlook checking email and calendar), the menubar is the perfect place for it. In the past the argument was that people want their apps warm started so that they open faster. But this is a moot point in 2025 with SSDs of pulling 5gb/s and tons of ram that allow for ample intelligent caching.

Aurornis 2y ago

> What is the purpose of the dock? It does not tell you what apps have windows visible, preview these windows or inform you where these windows are. Absolute waste of screen real estate. Auto-hide. First thing I turn on when I do a fresh install. Some keep it as an app launcher and quick switcher. I prefer to only open it when necessary.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]