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don’t forget kitchen timers! besides music, a top 3 use case is being able to ask for a timer when your hands are messy with ingredients or loaded with a dish g

don’t forget kitchen timers! besides music, a top 3 use case is being able to ask for a timer when your hands are messy with ingredients or loaded with a dish going into the oven. we tried the Alexa/Home lighting solutions this last year and it gets so annoying to ask every morning to turn the lights on. even worse when one of the bulbs drops from the network or the wifi is down.

bhhaskin 2y ago
The trick is a local first solution like Home Assistant and then use automations. No need to ask to turn on the lights; it just does it.
Marsymars 2y ago
Wi-Fi is really sub-optimal for light connectivity. Without venturing into high-end home automation systems like RadioRA, your best options for lighting as far as connectivity are concerned are probably Lutron Clear Connect > Z-Wave > Zigbee/Thread. And then any of HomeKit/Home Assistant/Hubitat to handle the automations.
- amluto 2y ago
  > Lutron Clear Connect > Z-Wave > Zigbee/Thread Lutron Clear Connect is great, but it’s not even a standard within Lutron. It’s a whole bunch of things, often wildly incompatible with each other. At least most of their stuff is compatible with Pico. But I’m surprised you put Z-Wave above Zigbee. On the one hand, Z-Wave is a nice ecosystem where approximately everything is compatible with everything else, and even generally unfriendly companies publish detailed integration guides. On the other hand, the protocol itself is unbelievably bad. It does not recover well from transient connectivity issues. Meshing is janky, picks poor routes, and has seconds of latency even when working correctly. The range of non-LR links is beyond pathetic, at least in the US regulatory region. (I found some references suggesting that US rules on power spectral density play poorly with the protocol and the EU region is a big better.) At least long range mode has tolerable, but far from amazing, range. I haven’t used Zigbee and Thread much, but my understanding is that Zigbee’s mesh should expect much lower latency than Z-Wave, and that Thread is even better. And Thread can supposedly sort-of-transparently use Ethernet backhaul to extend the mesh. Sadly the Thread ecosystem appears to be a mess.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > Lutron Clear Connect is great, but it’s not even a standard within Lutron. It’s a whole bunch of things, often wildly incompatible with each other. At least most of their stuff is compatible with Pico. Yeah, what I was trying to get at was specifically their Caseta line with 433 MHz Clear Connect (and not their more expensive solutions, which are also great, but a completely different tier). > But I’m surprised you put Z-Wave above Zigbee. I was a late-comer to Z-Wave, so I haven't used anything below Z-Wave 800 devices, and it's been solid for me, though I've been very judicious in the quality of devices I pick up, and am careful with device configuration to limit chatter, which can wreck Z-Wave networks. Zigbee has also been solid for me - the real upside for me with Z-Wave is simply the better range/reduced interference of 900 MHz vs 2.4 GHz. > I haven’t used Zigbee and Thread much, but my understanding is that Zigbee’s mesh should expect much lower latency than Z-Wave, and that Thread is even better. And Thread can supposedly sort-of-transparently use Ethernet backhaul to extend the mesh. Sadly the Thread ecosystem appears to be a mess. Thread's been pretty good for me too - but again, I'm pretty careful about devices. I use ethernet-connected Apple TVs on each floor of my house for the backhaul and don't have any thread devices that aren't also HomeKit compatible.
    - amluto 2y ago
      > better range/reduced interference of 900 MHz vs 2.4 GHz. What country / regulatory region are you in? With Z-Wave, non LR, in the US, with 800 series devices and USB stick (properly extended on an extension cable) or 800 series devices meshed to each other, I sometimes struggle to get a connection at a range of 20 feet or so, with a single ordinary drywall + wood wall in the way or even sometimes line of sight. LR is better, but not fantastic.
      - Marsymars 2y ago
        I'm in Canada, so same frequency/power as the US, AFAIK. Using a HomeSeer G8 on a Home Assistant Green with a USB extension cable. I can't really speak much to the range - it's been enough for the handful of devices I'm currently using, which are all Shelly (rebranded from Qubino) mains-powered Z-Wave devices. 20ft doesn't sound necessarily unreasonable though with a wall... I wouldn't expect Zigbee/Thread to perform better with comparable devices. I haven't found any of the low-power mesh networks to have especially great range when not taking advantage of the mesh.

bhhaskin 2y ago

The trick is a local first solution like Home Assistant and then use automations. No need to ask to turn on the lights; it just does it.

Marsymars 2y ago

Wi-Fi is really sub-optimal for light connectivity. Without venturing into high-end home automation systems like RadioRA, your best options for lighting as far as connectivity are concerned are probably Lutron Clear Connect > Z-Wave > Zigbee/Thread. And then any of HomeKit/Home Assistant/Hubitat to handle the automations.

amluto 2y ago
> Lutron Clear Connect > Z-Wave > Zigbee/Thread Lutron Clear Connect is great, but it’s not even a standard within Lutron. It’s a whole bunch of things, often wildly incompatible with each other. At least most of their stuff is compatible with Pico. But I’m surprised you put Z-Wave above Zigbee. On the one hand, Z-Wave is a nice ecosystem where approximately everything is compatible with everything else, and even generally unfriendly companies publish detailed integration guides. On the other hand, the protocol itself is unbelievably bad. It does not recover well from transient connectivity issues. Meshing is janky, picks poor routes, and has seconds of latency even when working correctly. The range of non-LR links is beyond pathetic, at least in the US regulatory region. (I found some references suggesting that US rules on power spectral density play poorly with the protocol and the EU region is a big better.) At least long range mode has tolerable, but far from amazing, range. I haven’t used Zigbee and Thread much, but my understanding is that Zigbee’s mesh should expect much lower latency than Z-Wave, and that Thread is even better. And Thread can supposedly sort-of-transparently use Ethernet backhaul to extend the mesh. Sadly the Thread ecosystem appears to be a mess.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > Lutron Clear Connect is great, but it’s not even a standard within Lutron. It’s a whole bunch of things, often wildly incompatible with each other. At least most of their stuff is compatible with Pico. Yeah, what I was trying to get at was specifically their Caseta line with 433 MHz Clear Connect (and not their more expensive solutions, which are also great, but a completely different tier). > But I’m surprised you put Z-Wave above Zigbee. I was a late-comer to Z-Wave, so I haven't used anything below Z-Wave 800 devices, and it's been solid for me, though I've been very judicious in the quality of devices I pick up, and am careful with device configuration to limit chatter, which can wreck Z-Wave networks. Zigbee has also been solid for me - the real upside for me with Z-Wave is simply the better range/reduced interference of 900 MHz vs 2.4 GHz. > I haven’t used Zigbee and Thread much, but my understanding is that Zigbee’s mesh should expect much lower latency than Z-Wave, and that Thread is even better. And Thread can supposedly sort-of-transparently use Ethernet backhaul to extend the mesh. Sadly the Thread ecosystem appears to be a mess. Thread's been pretty good for me too - but again, I'm pretty careful about devices. I use ethernet-connected Apple TVs on each floor of my house for the backhaul and don't have any thread devices that aren't also HomeKit compatible.
  - amluto 2y ago
    > better range/reduced interference of 900 MHz vs 2.4 GHz. What country / regulatory region are you in? With Z-Wave, non LR, in the US, with 800 series devices and USB stick (properly extended on an extension cable) or 800 series devices meshed to each other, I sometimes struggle to get a connection at a range of 20 feet or so, with a single ordinary drywall + wood wall in the way or even sometimes line of sight. LR is better, but not fantastic.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      I'm in Canada, so same frequency/power as the US, AFAIK. Using a HomeSeer G8 on a Home Assistant Green with a USB extension cable. I can't really speak much to the range - it's been enough for the handful of devices I'm currently using, which are all Shelly (rebranded from Qubino) mains-powered Z-Wave devices. 20ft doesn't sound necessarily unreasonable though with a wall... I wouldn't expect Zigbee/Thread to perform better with comparable devices. I haven't found any of the low-power mesh networks to have especially great range when not taking advantage of the mesh.