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> Unless you are a social Darwinist who believe the poor are genetically worse… This is guaranteed to be a strong factor, there's plenty of evidence on IQ heri

> Unless you are a social Darwinist who believe the poor are genetically worse… This is guaranteed to be a strong factor, there's plenty of evidence on IQ heritability and correlation with income. Just because it doesn't predict the outcome fully doesn't mean it's insignificant.

alasarmas 2y ago
I will guarantee that you came from a rich family, I have plenty of evidence. Your attitude is strongly correlated with the arrogance of generational wealth. Please don’t ask me to cite sources, I know exactly what I’m talking about. If you feel that I’m arguing in bad faith, please consider not responding and instead reflecting on why you feel the way that you do about this topic.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mr_00ff00 2y ago
“Regression results suggest no statistically distinguishable relationship between IQ scores and wealth. Financial distress, such as problems paying bills, going bankrupt or reaching credit card limits, is related to IQ scores not linearly but instead in a quadratic relationship. This means higher IQ scores sometimes increase the probability of being in financial difficulty.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289607000219 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... Notice how I cited a source, that’s intelligence. Not just decided I was wealthy and therefore inherently smarter. That’s ignorance.
- rafaelmn 2y ago
  Your own source says >Previous research, discussed below, has investigated the relationship between intelligence and income and found individuals with higher IQ test scores have higher income. and my comment says >there's plenty of evidence on IQ heritability and correlation with income. >Notice how I cited a source, that’s intelligence. Not just decided I was wealthy and therefore inherently smarter. That’s ignorance. Huh?
tptacek 2y ago
Heritability doesn't mean "genetically determined". This is probably the most common message board misconceptions about IQ. The number of fingers on your hands has low heritability; whether or not you wear lipstick has high heritability. You have to understand what the metric means in order to deploy it in an argument.
- rafaelmn 2y ago
  It's also significantly genetically determined (twin studies) so in this case I meant genetic heritability. Also for some reason people seem to think I'm making a comment about high IQ and elitism. I think low IQ is far more important for poverty discussion. Like sub 80 IQ is a significant percentage of population while being close to or having a mental disability. Sub 100 kind of makes it hard to have a well paying job in today's economy. And not only is genetic factor big here but also having low IQ/poor parents means your environment will likely have a negative impact on your cognitive development.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    No, that's not how this works. You can't just say "twin study" and dispel the environment(s), and, in fact, GWAS is pushing things in the opposite direction (people will argue by how much, but the direction is clear).
    - rafaelmn 2y ago
      Split twins strongly backs genetic component, and heritability is also significant. There's nothing to dispell, environment does seem to be a factor in negative direction, so that's undoubtedly a big factor as well. But low IQ people having low IQ children is going to explain a lot of it - no need to be a "social darwinists" to believe that.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        Split twins does the opposite: separated twins IQ-test outcomes track the SES of the families they go to. But "twin studies" is science at the level of "The Bell Curve", which is 30 years old. At this point, you kind of have to want IQ to be genetically determined (in any meaningful amount) to believe it is.

alasarmas 2y ago

I will guarantee that you came from a rich family, I have plenty of evidence. Your attitude is strongly correlated with the arrogance of generational wealth. Please don’t ask me to cite sources, I know exactly what I’m talking about. If you feel that I’m arguing in bad faith, please consider not responding and instead reflecting on why you feel the way that you do about this topic.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

mr_00ff00 2y ago

“Regression results suggest no statistically distinguishable relationship between IQ scores and wealth. Financial distress, such as problems paying bills, going bankrupt or reaching credit card limits, is related to IQ scores not linearly but instead in a quadratic relationship. This means higher IQ scores sometimes increase the probability of being in financial difficulty.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289607000219 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... Notice how I cited a source, that’s intelligence. Not just decided I was wealthy and therefore inherently smarter. That’s ignorance.

rafaelmn 2y ago
Your own source says >Previous research, discussed below, has investigated the relationship between intelligence and income and found individuals with higher IQ test scores have higher income. and my comment says >there's plenty of evidence on IQ heritability and correlation with income. >Notice how I cited a source, that’s intelligence. Not just decided I was wealthy and therefore inherently smarter. That’s ignorance. Huh?

tptacek 2y ago

Heritability doesn't mean "genetically determined". This is probably the most common message board misconceptions about IQ. The number of fingers on your hands has low heritability; whether or not you wear lipstick has high heritability. You have to understand what the metric means in order to deploy it in an argument.

rafaelmn 2y ago
It's also significantly genetically determined (twin studies) so in this case I meant genetic heritability. Also for some reason people seem to think I'm making a comment about high IQ and elitism. I think low IQ is far more important for poverty discussion. Like sub 80 IQ is a significant percentage of population while being close to or having a mental disability. Sub 100 kind of makes it hard to have a well paying job in today's economy. And not only is genetic factor big here but also having low IQ/poor parents means your environment will likely have a negative impact on your cognitive development.
- tptacek 2y ago
  No, that's not how this works. You can't just say "twin study" and dispel the environment(s), and, in fact, GWAS is pushing things in the opposite direction (people will argue by how much, but the direction is clear).
  - rafaelmn 2y ago
    Split twins strongly backs genetic component, and heritability is also significant. There's nothing to dispell, environment does seem to be a factor in negative direction, so that's undoubtedly a big factor as well. But low IQ people having low IQ children is going to explain a lot of it - no need to be a "social darwinists" to believe that.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Split twins does the opposite: separated twins IQ-test outcomes track the SES of the families they go to. But "twin studies" is science at the level of "The Bell Curve", which is 30 years old. At this point, you kind of have to want IQ to be genetically determined (in any meaningful amount) to believe it is.