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I live in Hungary and the roads here are incredibly bad with millions of potholes. Hot summers and cold winters doesn’t help either. But what I noticed that if

I live in Hungary and the roads here are incredibly bad with millions of potholes. Hot summers and cold winters doesn’t help either. But what I noticed that if the asphalt has higer mixture of stones (usually they use basalt here) then there are virtually almost no potholes. It’s more loud as the surface is more rough but by my layman experience it’s much more durable. Pure asphalt roads with very little stone content always become pothole minefields quickly. So I just generally don’t know why higher stone content is not a standard. Probably more expensive and maybe because of the sound too. I don’t think it’s more slippery in wet conditions.

dsego 2y ago
More stones also make asphalt more slippery in wet conditions don't they?
- alexey-salmin 2y ago
  I think it's the opposite, this kind of asphalt has very rough surface.
  - stavros 2y ago
    It has a rough surface in the way that it makes it uncomfortable to walk on, but not in the way that tires will grip to it. Stones are oddly-shaped, but slippery.
  - PeterStuer 2y ago
    But not the right kind of grit rough. The 'stoney' rough asphalts can be extremely slippery when wet, and even dry they then to extend breaking distance. My guess is they also cause more rolling tire wear and slightly more fuel consuption.
    - jmb99 2y ago
      I’m not sure how you could have worse grip when braking (caused by lower friction) while simultaneously increase tire wear (caused by higher friction), unless I’m misunderstanding something.
      - tempestn 2y ago
        Static (resisting sliding) vs rolling friction.
      - PeterStuer 2y ago
        Tire wear is not just friction. The uneven coarse grit can pound, cut, chip and twist the tire surface all while having less grip/friction.
IneffablePigeon 2y ago
Pretty bad for bikes though, and pushchairs.
- consp 2y ago
  The stones are usually not that big and the bitumen makes it more even anyway. The bicycle paths at my place use a semi coarse variant which is fine and drains quite a bit of water.
fhd2 2y ago
I did a road trip through Europe a few years back, and when we passed from Romania (coming from Cluj) to Hungary, the road immediately got _comically_ bad. As we got closer to Budapest things seemed to improve, but wow, I vividly remember this. I'd be curious to learn whether it's a lack of maintenance (Hungary generally seemed well maintained except for the roads though) or something else.
- haunter 2y ago
  Lack of maintenance and it’s a generally corrupt country. Stealing is not a crime (especially from public funds) but an act of bravery. There are no consequences. My theory that construction companies here work as a cartel. For them making good roads is not a business > less projects later. So keeping up the status quo with low quality is a better business, there is always something to fix and repair and also more opportunity to steal public money.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > Lack of maintenance and it’s a generally corrupt country. Stealing is not a crime (especially from public funds) but an act of bravery. There are no consequences. Welcome to EU. Is there any EU country where this is not a fact ?
    - fhd2 2y ago
      I'm in Germany, and while I'm sure we have some corruption (I believe every country has at least a little bit), I'm not aware of it as a systemic problem. With our previous (and how it's looking, next) government there was a scandal around masks in Covid times, and a few others I think. But nothing to the point of causing major disrepair of infrastructure. Our rail infrastructure is famously in need of maintenance, but from all I know that's more a matter of stupidity than malice (Hanlon's Razor and all that). While some might just denounce it as bureaucracy, we do have a lot of regulation, oversight and checks and balances. Which causes it's own issues (like having to pick the cheapest suppliers from an extended process). But I believe there are some EU countries where corruption in itself is a problem.
krona 2y ago
A higher aggregate mix sounds more like Tarmacadam (i.e. tarmac) although probably with a bituminous (rather than tar) binder these days. The higher aggregate mix generally doesn't make for a more durable road though, but there's far more to a good road than just the materials its made from.
lofaszvanitt 2y ago
Or that they steal the important ingredients from the mixture and the company who does the quality assurance is also on the "payroll".
aiiizzz 2y ago
Less people drive worse roads, leading to less damage to the roads.
- dieselgate 2y ago
  I don’t disagree, but commercial/trucking traffic is a big part of it too.

dsego 2y ago

More stones also make asphalt more slippery in wet conditions don't they?

alexey-salmin 2y ago
I think it's the opposite, this kind of asphalt has very rough surface.
- stavros 2y ago
  It has a rough surface in the way that it makes it uncomfortable to walk on, but not in the way that tires will grip to it. Stones are oddly-shaped, but slippery.
- PeterStuer 2y ago
  But not the right kind of grit rough. The 'stoney' rough asphalts can be extremely slippery when wet, and even dry they then to extend breaking distance. My guess is they also cause more rolling tire wear and slightly more fuel consuption.
  - jmb99 2y ago
    I’m not sure how you could have worse grip when braking (caused by lower friction) while simultaneously increase tire wear (caused by higher friction), unless I’m misunderstanding something.
    - tempestn 2y ago
      Static (resisting sliding) vs rolling friction.
    - PeterStuer 2y ago
      Tire wear is not just friction. The uneven coarse grit can pound, cut, chip and twist the tire surface all while having less grip/friction.

IneffablePigeon 2y ago

Pretty bad for bikes though, and pushchairs.

consp 2y ago
The stones are usually not that big and the bitumen makes it more even anyway. The bicycle paths at my place use a semi coarse variant which is fine and drains quite a bit of water.

fhd2 2y ago

I did a road trip through Europe a few years back, and when we passed from Romania (coming from Cluj) to Hungary, the road immediately got _comically_ bad. As we got closer to Budapest things seemed to improve, but wow, I vividly remember this. I'd be curious to learn whether it's a lack of maintenance (Hungary generally seemed well maintained except for the roads though) or something else.

haunter 2y ago
Lack of maintenance and it’s a generally corrupt country. Stealing is not a crime (especially from public funds) but an act of bravery. There are no consequences. My theory that construction companies here work as a cartel. For them making good roads is not a business > less projects later. So keeping up the status quo with low quality is a better business, there is always something to fix and repair and also more opportunity to steal public money.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > Lack of maintenance and it’s a generally corrupt country. Stealing is not a crime (especially from public funds) but an act of bravery. There are no consequences. Welcome to EU. Is there any EU country where this is not a fact ?
  - fhd2 2y ago
    I'm in Germany, and while I'm sure we have some corruption (I believe every country has at least a little bit), I'm not aware of it as a systemic problem. With our previous (and how it's looking, next) government there was a scandal around masks in Covid times, and a few others I think. But nothing to the point of causing major disrepair of infrastructure. Our rail infrastructure is famously in need of maintenance, but from all I know that's more a matter of stupidity than malice (Hanlon's Razor and all that). While some might just denounce it as bureaucracy, we do have a lot of regulation, oversight and checks and balances. Which causes it's own issues (like having to pick the cheapest suppliers from an extended process). But I believe there are some EU countries where corruption in itself is a problem.

krona 2y ago

A higher aggregate mix sounds more like Tarmacadam (i.e. tarmac) although probably with a bituminous (rather than tar) binder these days. The higher aggregate mix generally doesn't make for a more durable road though, but there's far more to a good road than just the materials its made from.

lofaszvanitt 2y ago

Or that they steal the important ingredients from the mixture and the company who does the quality assurance is also on the "payroll".

aiiizzz 2y ago

Less people drive worse roads, leading to less damage to the roads.

dieselgate 2y ago
I don’t disagree, but commercial/trucking traffic is a big part of it too.