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Back in the times when I read that statement, it had immediately lost credibility to me. The argument was basically an appeal-to-authority/argument from authori

by ww520 2y ago

Back in the times when I read that statement, it had immediately lost credibility to me. The argument was basically an appeal-to-authority/argument from authority. It put Tanenbaum onto the "villain" side in my mind, someone who was willing to use his position of authority to win argument rather than merits. Subsequent strings of microkernel failures proved the point. The moment Microsoft moved the graphic subsystem from user mode into the kernel mode to mitigate performance problem was the death of microkernel in Windows NT.

johnisgood 2y ago
If the GPU driver crashes, your kernel does not crash on Windows still, right? It continued working fine on Windows 7.
- ryao 2y ago
  It depends on what part of the GPU driver crashes. The kernel mode part crashing caused countless BSODs on Vista. The switch to WDDM was painful for Windows. Things had improved by the time Windows 7 was made.
pjmlp 2y ago
Meanwhile they moved it back into userspace by Windows Vista, and nowadays many kernel subsystems run sandboxed by Hyper-V. One of the reasons for the Windows 11 hardware requirements, is that nowadays Windows always runs as a guest OS.
- betaby 2y ago
  > kernel subsystems run sandboxed by Hyper-V What subsystems? Is there a documentation outlining that. > nowadays Windows always runs as a guest OS What is hypervisor in that case?
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Yes, https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-vbs https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-security/how-hardware-based-root-of-trust-helps-protect-windows https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/ignite-2016/brk4010 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/ignite-2016/brk4010 Naturally it is Hyper-V, given it is a type 1 hypervisor, and Microsoft owned.

by ww520 2y ago

johnisgood 2y ago

If the GPU driver crashes, your kernel does not crash on Windows still, right? It continued working fine on Windows 7.

ryao 2y ago
It depends on what part of the GPU driver crashes. The kernel mode part crashing caused countless BSODs on Vista. The switch to WDDM was painful for Windows. Things had improved by the time Windows 7 was made.

pjmlp 2y ago

Meanwhile they moved it back into userspace by Windows Vista, and nowadays many kernel subsystems run sandboxed by Hyper-V. One of the reasons for the Windows 11 hardware requirements, is that nowadays Windows always runs as a guest OS.

betaby 2y ago
> kernel subsystems run sandboxed by Hyper-V What subsystems? Is there a documentation outlining that. > nowadays Windows always runs as a guest OS What is hypervisor in that case?
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Yes, https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-vbs https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-security/how-hardware-based-root-of-trust-helps-protect-windows https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/ignite-2016/brk4010 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/ignite-2016/brk4010 Naturally it is Hyper-V, given it is a type 1 hypervisor, and Microsoft owned.