4 ms·

When I was going through a rough time and SSRIs weren't helping, read all the research on what other solutions were out there. Psilocybin seems to be the most e

When I was going through a rough time and SSRIs weren't helping, read all the research on what other solutions were out there. Psilocybin seems to be the most effective but is only legal in Oregon and price quotes were $3,500 for one session. Ketamine coupled with TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) was the second. Since both are legal and my insurance covered them, opted to choose these. I will say that the various meta-analyses have some conflicting results. TMS seemed to be pretty effective for me. It feels incredibly silly to have your brain zapped and is a big time commitment (30 days, 1X a day for 10 minutes) but I can't argue with the results. Ketamine was something else. I did it intravenously, which seemed to be the best way to manage dosage but required going into a clinic. The biggest downside to the whole treatment is that you'll be very drowsy and sometimes down after, and all I wanted to do was go to bed. Taking the Uber home is not pleasant. The esketamine nasal sprays allow you to do it at home at lower dosages. Once you get over the feeling of leaving your body, it can be quite nice. Overall, it led to unblocking some life time hold ups I had, and made me a better person. I had 5 sessions, 4 of them were overwhelmingly positive. The last was a dark couple hours where I hyperfocused on all my internal fears and failures. It also led to a lot of existential thoughts and questioning the fabric of reality which isn't all bad in small doses. I can see how excessive use could start to be counterproductive, it's good to stay connected to this reality. I don't understand how people use this as a party drug. I would absolutely recommend it in a controlled setting for limited treatment, but would caution those with addictive personalities to be careful, not to see it as a silver bullet or a crutch, to make sure you're in a neutral mental space and that you're comfortable wherever you're doing it. In tandem, I listened to a fair amount of buddhist podcasts from Joseph Goldstein that helped build out the spiritual/learning side. I'd like to see psylocibin treatment be more readily available at a lower price across the nation as an alternative.

golergka 2y ago
> Psilocybin seems to be the most effective but is only legal in Oregon and price quotes were $3,500 for one session That's a completely ridiculous price, about 300-500 times the "street" price of shrooms. In countries that I have familiarity with (not USA), shrooms have always been "technically illegal" drug which law enforcement never actually actively enforced, either formally through procedure (with doses below 100 grams considered fine-only territory), or informally, because the cops just don't take it seriously. So to me it seems like you're choosing to follow the law even though it would not hurt anyone and you would not get into any trouble, just out of pure principle. That's actually quite impressive.
- avtar 2y ago
  > That's a completely ridiculous price, about 300-500 times the "street" price of shrooms I'm not going to argue that the exact rates are justified, but chances are the person you're replying to was referring to psilocybin assisted therapy in clinical settings. So someone would be signing up to pay for having at least one therapist oversee the process, if not physicians and other staff as well. Factor in their time, operating costs, insurance, etc. it shouldn't be a surprise that the legal option will cost considerably more than buying mushrooms in a paper bag :)
  - golergka 2y ago
    > having at least one therapist oversee the process, if not physicians and other staff as well You know, when they talk about "set and setting", that's exactly what they DON'T have in mind.
    - LoganDark 2y ago
      Absolutely. I'd never want to do stuff like this in an unfamiliar clinical setting. I'd want to do it at home where I'm safe and have my friends
    - mistrial9 2y ago
      no, some medical professionals do have a clue.. and many recreational drug users are unaware of rare but very serious health situations.. If some "clinical therapists" with zero empathy and background make a clean white room, then sure, agree.. but here in California, there are more aware medical professionals then you might guess at first
- robotresearcher 2y ago
  Some people have a very different risk profile to others around getting in trouble with the law. People on immigrant visas, people who would lose security clearance or their job, etc. Even if you’re not a goody goody by nature, the rational behavior for a green card holder at a nuclear lab is to be good as gold, at high cost.
- 2y ago
sibeliuss 2y ago
Ketamine felt like instant addiction -- after one semi-excessive late night spree I was certain I couldn't continue messing with it.
tombert 2y ago
I did TMS a few months ago, and I'm not convinced it really did anything. It's a little frustrating, because no medication seems to work at all for me now.
- mythrwy 2y ago
  This is going to sound silly, and I'm not a medical pro, but maybe try fermenting some vegetables and fruit and eat a bit every day? It's very easy. You cut up vegetables, put them in salt water and let them ferment for a few days to a week. Fermented carrots are really good. I also absolutely love greens fermented in rice water with a little sugar. There are many recipes online, also for lightly fermenting fruit. Anyway there is pretty strong research on the connection between gut microflora and depression. Probiotic fermented foods (especially high fiber fermented foods) are a wonder.
  - spdgg 2y ago
    >There are many recipes online There are, and when I search I am overwhelmed by blog spam that does not describe it as simply as you. For those curious like me, can you point to a good resource? Or explain to salt water and ferment part - leave in a sealed jar on the counter? Thanks in advance
    - sriacha 2y ago
      Two books to check out: Sandor Katz: Wild Fermentaion The Noma Guide to Fermentation but really it can be as simple as some saltwater and veg in a jar, careful to have then mostly covered with brine. Have to manage releasing pressure, burping it a few times a day is fine. Of course, you can get much fancier if you want, the possibilities are endless.
      - amluto 2y ago
        > Have to manage releasing pressure, burping it a few times a day is fine. Of course, you can get much fancier if you want, the possibilities are endless. I would at least go slightly fancier: get a lid intended for fermentation that lets gasses out on its own. There are several good designs out there, and your local Target or similar store probably carries a little kit, intended for use with a mason jar, that contains a high quality fermentation lid and a nice stainless steel or glass mechanism to hold your veggies down, for a few dollars. You will want a lid anyway, and the coated metal two-part lids used for canning jam will be destroyed pretty quickly by regular use for fermentation.

golergka 2y ago

> Psilocybin seems to be the most effective but is only legal in Oregon and price quotes were $3,500 for one session That's a completely ridiculous price, about 300-500 times the "street" price of shrooms. In countries that I have familiarity with (not USA), shrooms have always been "technically illegal" drug which law enforcement never actually actively enforced, either formally through procedure (with doses below 100 grams considered fine-only territory), or informally, because the cops just don't take it seriously. So to me it seems like you're choosing to follow the law even though it would not hurt anyone and you would not get into any trouble, just out of pure principle. That's actually quite impressive.

avtar 2y ago
> That's a completely ridiculous price, about 300-500 times the "street" price of shrooms I'm not going to argue that the exact rates are justified, but chances are the person you're replying to was referring to psilocybin assisted therapy in clinical settings. So someone would be signing up to pay for having at least one therapist oversee the process, if not physicians and other staff as well. Factor in their time, operating costs, insurance, etc. it shouldn't be a surprise that the legal option will cost considerably more than buying mushrooms in a paper bag :)
- golergka 2y ago
  > having at least one therapist oversee the process, if not physicians and other staff as well You know, when they talk about "set and setting", that's exactly what they DON'T have in mind.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    Absolutely. I'd never want to do stuff like this in an unfamiliar clinical setting. I'd want to do it at home where I'm safe and have my friends
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    no, some medical professionals do have a clue.. and many recreational drug users are unaware of rare but very serious health situations.. If some "clinical therapists" with zero empathy and background make a clean white room, then sure, agree.. but here in California, there are more aware medical professionals then you might guess at first
robotresearcher 2y ago
Some people have a very different risk profile to others around getting in trouble with the law. People on immigrant visas, people who would lose security clearance or their job, etc. Even if you’re not a goody goody by nature, the rational behavior for a green card holder at a nuclear lab is to be good as gold, at high cost.
2y ago

sibeliuss 2y ago

Ketamine felt like instant addiction -- after one semi-excessive late night spree I was certain I couldn't continue messing with it.

tombert 2y ago

I did TMS a few months ago, and I'm not convinced it really did anything. It's a little frustrating, because no medication seems to work at all for me now.

mythrwy 2y ago
This is going to sound silly, and I'm not a medical pro, but maybe try fermenting some vegetables and fruit and eat a bit every day? It's very easy. You cut up vegetables, put them in salt water and let them ferment for a few days to a week. Fermented carrots are really good. I also absolutely love greens fermented in rice water with a little sugar. There are many recipes online, also for lightly fermenting fruit. Anyway there is pretty strong research on the connection between gut microflora and depression. Probiotic fermented foods (especially high fiber fermented foods) are a wonder.
- spdgg 2y ago
  >There are many recipes online There are, and when I search I am overwhelmed by blog spam that does not describe it as simply as you. For those curious like me, can you point to a good resource? Or explain to salt water and ferment part - leave in a sealed jar on the counter? Thanks in advance
  - sriacha 2y ago
    Two books to check out: Sandor Katz: Wild Fermentaion The Noma Guide to Fermentation but really it can be as simple as some saltwater and veg in a jar, careful to have then mostly covered with brine. Have to manage releasing pressure, burping it a few times a day is fine. Of course, you can get much fancier if you want, the possibilities are endless.
    - amluto 2y ago
      > Have to manage releasing pressure, burping it a few times a day is fine. Of course, you can get much fancier if you want, the possibilities are endless. I would at least go slightly fancier: get a lid intended for fermentation that lets gasses out on its own. There are several good designs out there, and your local Target or similar store probably carries a little kit, intended for use with a mason jar, that contains a high quality fermentation lid and a nice stainless steel or glass mechanism to hold your veggies down, for a few dollars. You will want a lid anyway, and the coated metal two-part lids used for canning jam will be destroyed pretty quickly by regular use for fermentation.