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Honestly, DOGE seems like a disingenuous enterprise simply based on the fact that they are not starting with the DoD. Defense contractors simply couldn't stop

Honestly, DOGE seems like a disingenuous enterprise simply based on the fact that they are not starting with the DoD. Defense contractors simply couldn't stop accidentally electricuting people in warzones[0, 1]. They have had a major negative impact on readiness while benefitting from massive contracts[2] and . There also appears to be a situation where DoD leadership has been captured by the defense industry[4]. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna32334682 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna32334682 [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/another-mysterious-electrocution-death-iraq/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/another-mysterious... [2] https://www.icij.org/investigations/windfalls-war/us-contractors-reap-windfalls-post-war-reconstruction-0/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/windfalls-war/us-contrac... [3] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2023/04/19/ordinary-americans-subsidize-military-industrial/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2023/0... [4] https://quincyinst.org/research/subsidizing-the-military-industrial-complex-a-review-of-the-secretary-of-defense-executive-fellows-sdef-program/#h-executive-summary https://quincyinst.org/research/subsidizing-the-military-ind...

janalsncm 2y ago
> DoD leadership has been captured by the defense industry That explains why you wouldn’t start there. Assuming what DOGE is doing can work at all, it’s easier to start in an easier place.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  DOGE can’t work at all because ~75% of federal spending is entitlements + interest, the majority which go to old people. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder... What really needs to be cut is spending on old people, but that will never happen.
  - jghn 2y ago
    > What really needs to be cut is spending on old people They've been making more noise and there's more smoke about this than usual. I did see today (yesterday?) Trump was on about them booting fraudsters off of Social Security. It made me wonder if that was the playbook. They start turning off the spigot for SS and Medicare, but publicly the story parroted by the media is that all they're doing is removing criminals, waste, fraud, etc. While that'd be untrue, because that's the narrative being slammed down everyone's throat, even though there'll be people with individual sob stories it'd probably work.
    - defrost 2y ago
      Cutting SS, Medicare, and other support services has the dubious advantage of leaving a good number of the least able members of society with less resources and less of a voice to raise. People barely getting by that are reliant on scant support won't be raising much of a complaint that they're not actual fraudsters once that support is gone.
      - jghn 2y ago
        The historic stance was that the right would never cut SS/Medicare because the elderly have some of the loudest political voices and would immediately switch sides. Whether or not this true, unfortunately I suspect we'll find out.
    - theGnuMe 2y ago
      This is the obvious playbook. It might include the "illegal immigrant" narrative as well. Also, if you remember, we previously had welfare queens (which is a really disgusting phrase if you really think about it). The problem in Tech is that they've lost their humanity (or never had any). Instead they operate from animalistic self-interest of "cull the weak to save the herd or they will drag us all down". This is the intrinsic nature of meritocracy. It derives from the fear of uncertainty. Tech is supposed to be the best and brightest; and yet it is profoundly dumb. We propose a bunch of sophomoric solutions to human problems. I think this is due to youth, inexperience and tribalism which is reflective of a lack of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
  - theGnuMe 2y ago
    You too will be old one day if you are lucky.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      An appeal to emotion does not negate the physical constraints of nature. One can see an issue with a society with 80 non workers and 20 workers trying to compete in the world. The fact that limits exist is obvious, so the question of what that limit should be is all that is important. While I am sure it is much easier to say than do, I do hope that I have the fortitude to take myself out though once I become too much of a resource sink for my descendants.
      - worthless-trash 2y ago
        As a point. It does not need to just be 80 old people in this equation. Welfare, unemployment and theft all play a part in this equation.
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        Yes, that is why I wrote workers and non workers.
        worthless-trash 2y ago
        I had incorrectly assumed you were referring to older ppl as non workers.
      - malicka 2y ago
        Luckily, society broadly creates more than enough wealth and resources to provide for you, even when you are disabled or elderly. In modern society, if you are a “sink,” it is solely because the system is designed to make you that way – perhaps the wealthiest among us are able to pay a bit less on taxes, in exchange for your caretaker not getting monetary support. For example. I reckon gutting social security would be very profitable to some. The government’s job is to be useful, and supporting those who can’t support themselves – like the elderly and disabled – is very literally the most noble and useful thing it can do.
jghn 2y ago
When the right wing says they want to cut spending, they don't actually mean it. They mean they want to cut spending for certain things. The fact that those certain things are a rounding error compared to their untouchable bits is irrelevant.
ericd 2y ago
I’m guessing there’s going to be cuts there, too - Musk spoke recently that drone warfare is the very clear future of war, and I’m guessing that the shift to that will involve cutting down on a lot of legacy programs.

janalsncm 2y ago

> DoD leadership has been captured by the defense industry That explains why you wouldn’t start there. Assuming what DOGE is doing can work at all, it’s easier to start in an easier place.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
DOGE can’t work at all because ~75% of federal spending is entitlements + interest, the majority which go to old people. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder... What really needs to be cut is spending on old people, but that will never happen.
- jghn 2y ago
  > What really needs to be cut is spending on old people They've been making more noise and there's more smoke about this than usual. I did see today (yesterday?) Trump was on about them booting fraudsters off of Social Security. It made me wonder if that was the playbook. They start turning off the spigot for SS and Medicare, but publicly the story parroted by the media is that all they're doing is removing criminals, waste, fraud, etc. While that'd be untrue, because that's the narrative being slammed down everyone's throat, even though there'll be people with individual sob stories it'd probably work.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Cutting SS, Medicare, and other support services has the dubious advantage of leaving a good number of the least able members of society with less resources and less of a voice to raise. People barely getting by that are reliant on scant support won't be raising much of a complaint that they're not actual fraudsters once that support is gone.
    - jghn 2y ago
      The historic stance was that the right would never cut SS/Medicare because the elderly have some of the loudest political voices and would immediately switch sides. Whether or not this true, unfortunately I suspect we'll find out.
  - theGnuMe 2y ago
    This is the obvious playbook. It might include the "illegal immigrant" narrative as well. Also, if you remember, we previously had welfare queens (which is a really disgusting phrase if you really think about it). The problem in Tech is that they've lost their humanity (or never had any). Instead they operate from animalistic self-interest of "cull the weak to save the herd or they will drag us all down". This is the intrinsic nature of meritocracy. It derives from the fear of uncertainty. Tech is supposed to be the best and brightest; and yet it is profoundly dumb. We propose a bunch of sophomoric solutions to human problems. I think this is due to youth, inexperience and tribalism which is reflective of a lack of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- theGnuMe 2y ago
  You too will be old one day if you are lucky.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    An appeal to emotion does not negate the physical constraints of nature. One can see an issue with a society with 80 non workers and 20 workers trying to compete in the world. The fact that limits exist is obvious, so the question of what that limit should be is all that is important. While I am sure it is much easier to say than do, I do hope that I have the fortitude to take myself out though once I become too much of a resource sink for my descendants.
    - worthless-trash 2y ago
      As a point. It does not need to just be 80 old people in this equation. Welfare, unemployment and theft all play a part in this equation.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        Yes, that is why I wrote workers and non workers.
        worthless-trash 2y ago
        I had incorrectly assumed you were referring to older ppl as non workers.
    - malicka 2y ago
      Luckily, society broadly creates more than enough wealth and resources to provide for you, even when you are disabled or elderly. In modern society, if you are a “sink,” it is solely because the system is designed to make you that way – perhaps the wealthiest among us are able to pay a bit less on taxes, in exchange for your caretaker not getting monetary support. For example. I reckon gutting social security would be very profitable to some. The government’s job is to be useful, and supporting those who can’t support themselves – like the elderly and disabled – is very literally the most noble and useful thing it can do.

jghn 2y ago

When the right wing says they want to cut spending, they don't actually mean it. They mean they want to cut spending for certain things. The fact that those certain things are a rounding error compared to their untouchable bits is irrelevant.

ericd 2y ago

I’m guessing there’s going to be cuts there, too - Musk spoke recently that drone warfare is the very clear future of war, and I’m guessing that the shift to that will involve cutting down on a lot of legacy programs.