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I didn't see it mentioned in the article. But how do people get to groceries, doctors appointments, hospital visits, or school? I assume you need some sort of w

I didn't see it mentioned in the article. But how do people get to groceries, doctors appointments, hospital visits, or school? I assume you need some sort of wagon. When we lived in an apartment, we pulled up as close as possible to our building and took several trips up and downstairs. But there is no car in this scenario. Family of four consumes a lot every week. Also I imagine that because its apartment based, people are more inclined to spend time outside rather than couped up in their apartment?

episteme 2y ago
Walk, bike, bus, tram, train, ferry, boat?
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  Right but look at groceries, that's a ton to haul if they don't have a grocery store there. I live somewhere that a car is required so the concept is foreign to me.
  - episteme 2y ago
    You can carry a lot if the bags are suitable. Grocery delivery is also becoming very popular.
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    I've seen people occasionally walking around NYC with personal(?) shopping carts. They look different than anything in the store so I assume they got them for themselves. ex. https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Home-UPGRADED-Waterproof-Groceries/dp/B0CBCYY96N https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Home-UPGRADED-Waterproof-Gro...
    - firesteelrain 2y ago
      Makes sense. Have to get past looking homeless pushing them as people who do push those in my areas are homeless. Its just a mindset shift though not insurmountable.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      The cheap $20 versions of those things have awful wheels and are pretty much unusable anywhere that has weather or uneven pavement. I had one and never used it. But then I started using a $500 baby stroller. Of course at first I only did it including a baby, but once the baby got too big for the stroller I kept using the stroller for groceries because it worked well. Eventually I replaced the baby stroller with a "garden wagon". https://www.google.com/search?q=garden+wagon https://www.google.com/search?q=garden+wagon
      - em-bee 2y ago
        in any sufficiently developed place those shopping carts are good enough. my grandmother had one with three wheels on each side connected to a central axis allowing her to pull it up on stairs with much less effort. as a kid i found that fascinating.
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Mine sucked at curbs. It worked, so probably "good enough". It was just annoying and I preferred to just carry my groceries before the baby and their stroller arrived. But if your grandma was handling stairs with hers, curbs likely wouldn't have been an issue.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
      Hackenporsche! ( 'Porsche' (jokingly) which you pull behind you, and occassionally into your own heels (hacken/fersen in german) :-) ) Or https://www.amazon.com/s?k=shopping+trolley https://www.amazon.com/s?k=shopping+trolley I've used something like this in the past, when not using my bicycle: https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Climbing-Heavy-Duty-Telescoping-Warehouse/dp/B0DNQ7Y76H https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Climbing-Heavy-Duty-Telescoping... combined with something like from here for fully 'professional' modularity: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ortlieb+dry+bag https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ortlieb+dry+bag They are nice to have in general, not necessarily for daily use, or shopping. Just for when something large and heavy comes, or has to go. Like fridges, washing machines, ovens, or laaarge screens :-) Can be stowed away easily for being ready just in case.
  - stouset 2y ago
    If a grocery store is walking distance, you don’t need to do a massive haul once a week.
    - firesteelrain 2y ago
      Perhaps but who wants to go to the store everyday?
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Who wants to go for a short walk everyday?
      - throw0101d 2y ago
        > Perhaps but who wants to go to the store everyday? Someone who wants to get some fresh air during their lunch break.
      - stouset 2y ago
        My grocery store is across the street. I will walk there in the morning just for a gallon of milk for my coffee when I run out. It's hard to convey how little an inconvenience it is when groceries are a four minute walk away.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    Depends on how you shop. I lived in a large metropolis with 2 kids and we didn't have a car (not in the US, of course).
  - abdullahkhalids 2y ago
    I walk to the grocery store, which is about a 25 min walk one way, once a week. I get about 90% of my groceries for the week in that trip and they fit in my backpack + one shoulder bag for crushable vegetables. Do it from +40C to -20C through the year. I am in my late 30s, and do not find this difficult at all.
  - throw0101d 2y ago
    > Right but look at groceries, that's a ton to haul if they don't have a grocery store there. If you go every 1-2 weeks and do a mass/bulk purchase, perhaps. If the grocery store is between the transit stop and your home, or on your cycling route, you can pick a few things up in an ad hoc manner in smaller batches. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk * "Can Groceries Be Delivered TOO Quickly?!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpavEMVQpW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpavEMVQpW8
mfashby 2y ago
Cargo bike?
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  Wonder if this works for everyone. Like if you have an infant, where would you put it ? Lots of different logistics to figure out
  - mfashby 2y ago
    The front loading variety can fit car seats for infants. My 2yo fits on a rear seat no problem. Might not work for absolutely everyone but it sure works for some.
AlotOfReading 2y ago
Culdesac has on-demand car rentals for $5/hr so you can do things that transit or rideshare aren't well suited for. Most activities can be done with transit or rideshare in that part of Tempe though. It's mainly a student/young professional area, not a lot of families with 2.5 kids that need huge grocery hauls.
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  I see. A lot of the photos do show a lot of fit and young people. No families and no one over age 30 probably. I am not the target market.
  - shkkmo 2y ago
    The article interviews a family with kids and a car-free area is a great location for an elderly person who can still take care of themselves other than driving (many elderly people end up driving well after it is no longer safe.)
  - mfashby 2y ago
    Adaptive cycling. I've met folks well into their 80s riding trikes to get places (hip replacements and all).
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Granny trikes acquired the name for a reason. It seems like 40 years ago old people were far more likely to do the car-free / car-light lifestyle than younger people.
    - jerlam 2y ago
      My grandparents lived within walking distance to grocery stores, supermarkets, friends, and restaurants; they continued to walk to those places well within their 80s. It kept them mobile, healthy, and part of the community; probably more so than their children (my parents), who are trapped in their suburban homes and have nowhere to walk to, even if it was socially acceptable. A lot of the elderly become weak and fragile due to lack of exercise, not due to age. Now we expect them to drive everywhere with failing eyesight, slow reflexes, and questionable judgement, with unfortunate results.
ohples 2y ago
In theory when you live within walking distance to a grocery store it becomes much easier to do many smaller trips, rather than a once weekly "shopping trip". Your right though this article doesn't really talk about that. We live in a city down the street from a grocery store. We sort of treat the store as an extended pantry. When we need to make something, we just go down to the store and get the stuff and make it. Door to door time to the store is 2-3 minutes, the lines are usually never long because it's a smaller store but they have about as much staff as a larger one. Whenever we need to get a little more we just bring one of the carts from the store up to our apartment via the elevator and bring it back. As for the rest of the things. Again if you can walk or take good transit there is no need to drive.
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  Its more of my own ignorance and lack of experience to be able to appreciate that kind of lifestyle because we have a two story home with lots of space, two car garage, and three cars. There is a lot of freedom but lack of walkability. We have to drive to walk somewhere like an outdoor style mall. Or to plaza's to doctor's, optometrist, Target, Walmart, Aldi's, etc
insane_dreamer 2y ago
I lived outside the US most of my life. Never owned a car. Public transport, and the occasional car rental. Even with 2 kids. Unfortunately now that I'm in the US, we have to have a car.
- em-bee 2y ago
  a somewhat related anecdote (at the time i had no kids though). i too never owned a car. never even learned to drive. and when i got a job in the US, in san diego which is very spread out too, i thought "this is it, i'll have to learn to drive now". to my surprise, i didn't. i managed to arrange my life such that i could either walk or take a bus to work, shopping etc. the same in los angeles and later in auckland, nz, also a very car centric city. again, i was single without kids, so i didn't have to consider the needs of others when choosing where to live. now with kids we live in places with better public transport and i still haven't learned to drive.

episteme 2y ago

Walk, bike, bus, tram, train, ferry, boat?

firesteelrain 2y ago
Right but look at groceries, that's a ton to haul if they don't have a grocery store there. I live somewhere that a car is required so the concept is foreign to me.
- episteme 2y ago
  You can carry a lot if the bags are suitable. Grocery delivery is also becoming very popular.
- lesuorac 2y ago
  I've seen people occasionally walking around NYC with personal(?) shopping carts. They look different than anything in the store so I assume they got them for themselves. ex. https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Home-UPGRADED-Waterproof-Groceries/dp/B0CBCYY96N https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Home-UPGRADED-Waterproof-Gro...
  - firesteelrain 2y ago
    Makes sense. Have to get past looking homeless pushing them as people who do push those in my areas are homeless. Its just a mindset shift though not insurmountable.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    The cheap $20 versions of those things have awful wheels and are pretty much unusable anywhere that has weather or uneven pavement. I had one and never used it. But then I started using a $500 baby stroller. Of course at first I only did it including a baby, but once the baby got too big for the stroller I kept using the stroller for groceries because it worked well. Eventually I replaced the baby stroller with a "garden wagon". https://www.google.com/search?q=garden+wagon https://www.google.com/search?q=garden+wagon
    - em-bee 2y ago
      in any sufficiently developed place those shopping carts are good enough. my grandmother had one with three wheels on each side connected to a central axis allowing her to pull it up on stairs with much less effort. as a kid i found that fascinating.
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Mine sucked at curbs. It worked, so probably "good enough". It was just annoying and I preferred to just carry my groceries before the baby and their stroller arrived. But if your grandma was handling stairs with hers, curbs likely wouldn't have been an issue.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    Hackenporsche! ( 'Porsche' (jokingly) which you pull behind you, and occassionally into your own heels (hacken/fersen in german) :-) ) Or https://www.amazon.com/s?k=shopping+trolley https://www.amazon.com/s?k=shopping+trolley I've used something like this in the past, when not using my bicycle: https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Climbing-Heavy-Duty-Telescoping-Warehouse/dp/B0DNQ7Y76H https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Climbing-Heavy-Duty-Telescoping... combined with something like from here for fully 'professional' modularity: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ortlieb+dry+bag https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ortlieb+dry+bag They are nice to have in general, not necessarily for daily use, or shopping. Just for when something large and heavy comes, or has to go. Like fridges, washing machines, ovens, or laaarge screens :-) Can be stowed away easily for being ready just in case.
- stouset 2y ago
  If a grocery store is walking distance, you don’t need to do a massive haul once a week.
  - firesteelrain 2y ago
    Perhaps but who wants to go to the store everyday?
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      Who wants to go for a short walk everyday?
    - throw0101d 2y ago
      > Perhaps but who wants to go to the store everyday? Someone who wants to get some fresh air during their lunch break.
    - stouset 2y ago
      My grocery store is across the street. I will walk there in the morning just for a gallon of milk for my coffee when I run out. It's hard to convey how little an inconvenience it is when groceries are a four minute walk away.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Depends on how you shop. I lived in a large metropolis with 2 kids and we didn't have a car (not in the US, of course).
- abdullahkhalids 2y ago
  I walk to the grocery store, which is about a 25 min walk one way, once a week. I get about 90% of my groceries for the week in that trip and they fit in my backpack + one shoulder bag for crushable vegetables. Do it from +40C to -20C through the year. I am in my late 30s, and do not find this difficult at all.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > Right but look at groceries, that's a ton to haul if they don't have a grocery store there. If you go every 1-2 weeks and do a mass/bulk purchase, perhaps. If the grocery store is between the transit stop and your home, or on your cycling route, you can pick a few things up in an ad hoc manner in smaller batches. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk * "Can Groceries Be Delivered TOO Quickly?!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpavEMVQpW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpavEMVQpW8

mfashby 2y ago

Cargo bike?

firesteelrain 2y ago
Wonder if this works for everyone. Like if you have an infant, where would you put it ? Lots of different logistics to figure out
- mfashby 2y ago
  The front loading variety can fit car seats for infants. My 2yo fits on a rear seat no problem. Might not work for absolutely everyone but it sure works for some.

AlotOfReading 2y ago

Culdesac has on-demand car rentals for $5/hr so you can do things that transit or rideshare aren't well suited for. Most activities can be done with transit or rideshare in that part of Tempe though. It's mainly a student/young professional area, not a lot of families with 2.5 kids that need huge grocery hauls.

firesteelrain 2y ago
I see. A lot of the photos do show a lot of fit and young people. No families and no one over age 30 probably. I am not the target market.
- shkkmo 2y ago
  The article interviews a family with kids and a car-free area is a great location for an elderly person who can still take care of themselves other than driving (many elderly people end up driving well after it is no longer safe.)
- mfashby 2y ago
  Adaptive cycling. I've met folks well into their 80s riding trikes to get places (hip replacements and all).
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Granny trikes acquired the name for a reason. It seems like 40 years ago old people were far more likely to do the car-free / car-light lifestyle than younger people.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    My grandparents lived within walking distance to grocery stores, supermarkets, friends, and restaurants; they continued to walk to those places well within their 80s. It kept them mobile, healthy, and part of the community; probably more so than their children (my parents), who are trapped in their suburban homes and have nowhere to walk to, even if it was socially acceptable. A lot of the elderly become weak and fragile due to lack of exercise, not due to age. Now we expect them to drive everywhere with failing eyesight, slow reflexes, and questionable judgement, with unfortunate results.

ohples 2y ago

In theory when you live within walking distance to a grocery store it becomes much easier to do many smaller trips, rather than a once weekly "shopping trip". Your right though this article doesn't really talk about that. We live in a city down the street from a grocery store. We sort of treat the store as an extended pantry. When we need to make something, we just go down to the store and get the stuff and make it. Door to door time to the store is 2-3 minutes, the lines are usually never long because it's a smaller store but they have about as much staff as a larger one. Whenever we need to get a little more we just bring one of the carts from the store up to our apartment via the elevator and bring it back. As for the rest of the things. Again if you can walk or take good transit there is no need to drive.

firesteelrain 2y ago
Its more of my own ignorance and lack of experience to be able to appreciate that kind of lifestyle because we have a two story home with lots of space, two car garage, and three cars. There is a lot of freedom but lack of walkability. We have to drive to walk somewhere like an outdoor style mall. Or to plaza's to doctor's, optometrist, Target, Walmart, Aldi's, etc

insane_dreamer 2y ago

I lived outside the US most of my life. Never owned a car. Public transport, and the occasional car rental. Even with 2 kids. Unfortunately now that I'm in the US, we have to have a car.

em-bee 2y ago
a somewhat related anecdote (at the time i had no kids though). i too never owned a car. never even learned to drive. and when i got a job in the US, in san diego which is very spread out too, i thought "this is it, i'll have to learn to drive now". to my surprise, i didn't. i managed to arrange my life such that i could either walk or take a bus to work, shopping etc. the same in los angeles and later in auckland, nz, also a very car centric city. again, i was single without kids, so i didn't have to consider the needs of others when choosing where to live. now with kids we live in places with better public transport and i still haven't learned to drive.