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The IPS LCD Revolution
- jrockway 14y agoThese articles have made me want to buy a new monitor at home, but the 7 year-old 24" Dell monitor that I have still works perfectly fine. It's more than bright enough and there are no defective pixels. The $800 or whatever it cost back then seems like a lot, but what other 7-year-old computer part does anyone still use today? (My mouse and HHKB are getting there...)
- weaksauce 14y agoI upgraded to a 30" IPS(from a 24" IPS) and it's well worth it. It does take a little getting used to having that much screen that close but the adjustment period is on the order of a day or two.
- jrockway 14y agoI have a 30" at work. I don't really need the space. It isn't enough space to have four 100 column files open, and 24" is enough for three.
- codinghorror 14y agoMultiple panels may be better for the way you work than one large panel. In general I don't think any programmer should have less than two monitors, ever. Ideally three (for the "center"), and if you're crazy, four.
- greyboy 14y agoI can work fine with a single 20" 1600x1200. It's not my dream setup but it's also not hindering me for my work (backend systems).
- jrockway 14y agoI've been thinking of going the 19/30/19 route, but I've had a hard time finding an affordable mount that converts that scheme into something I can mount on a single monitor arm. I'm signed up for a metalworking class in the near future, so maybe I can solve that problem myself :)
- obtu 14y agoI'm used to multiple desktops (gnome 3, gnome before that), and multiple panels turn out to be useless to me. I just can't spread my attention across two monitors, whereas I switch desktops without thinking about it.
- codinghorror 14y agoTask switching, replacing one set of content with another (literally) isn't generally free: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/the-multi-tasking-myth.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/the-multi-tasking-m...
- Locke1689 14y agoWhat font face and size do you use? I found that Consolas at 12 requires 2560 to get three 100 columns side-by-side.
- jrockway 14y agoI use DejaVu Sans Mono-10 on the 30" and -9 on the 24".
- jarek 14y agoI use an 8 year old laptop. Quite capable for wasting time on HN and reddit. Oh, and pretty much every web app out there...
- w1ntermute 14y agoOut of curiosity, what's the model # and specs?
- jarek 14y agoThinkpad X31, Pentium M 1.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 12" XGA, hard drive upgraded to a Seagate ST980815A (http://bin.piorkowski.ca/hdtune/x31-seagate-5400.3.png http://bin.piorkowski.ca/hdtune/x31-seagate-5400.3.png) Running Ubuntu 10.04 or something, used to run Windows 7 quite well too
- tadfisher 14y agoI successfully used my X31 for the entire week at OSCON. With so many Mac Pros and T430s around, I got a lot of stares when I whipped out this 12" 4:3 piece of history.
- jarek 14y agoPeople brought T430s to OSCON? The keyboard layout alone should be enough to disqualify the __30 series :(
- w1ntermute 14y agoWhat's wrong with the keyboard? It's different, but all the reviews I've read have grudgingly admitted that it's actually better (or at least just as good) as the old keyboard.
- jarek 14y agoI'm having huge issues getting over the layout (no space between F key groups, home/end/pgup/pgdown block broken up). I haven't typed on one, admittedly.
- epaik 14y agoI've ordered one, but I'm more than a little concerned about the potential 30% failure rate that I read about in the previous thread. I'm a little bit curious though, as to WHY exactly these screen's failure rates are so high, or how they fail. If there's any way to prolong my LCD's life I'd like to be made aware.
- pja 14y agoPerhaps that's why they're £200? Also, they don't work with some video cards (I know my Radeon 5750 has occasional trouble syncing with my HP LP2475W for some reason, but that's single-link DVI only. I imagine these monitors are dual-link DVI displays?)
- epaik 14y agoOf course they're cheap for a reason. I was just a little bit interested in the technical details of what causes a display like this to fail. And yes, these monitors are dual-link dvi only.
- pja 14y agoJust to be clear: the 5750 is supposed to be dual-link capable, but the ebay sellers for these monitors all seem to state that they don't work with the 5750 (nor a bunch of other ATI & NVidia graphics cards of similar vintage).
- kevhsu 14y agoThat 30% is anecdotal from ONE guy's company that bought a few of these monitors. The sample size is too small, and also there are multiple Korean OEMs selling similar monitors. Some are using nicer boards than others, the same way some are using nicer casing than others. I've heard murmurring of people getting Square warranties for these monitors. Might be worth investigating if the failure rate is a concern for you. ~$300+warranty costs will still be significantly less than a Cinema Display.
- Paul_S 14y agoYou could buy an IPS LCD for a bit above 200 quid for years now. Someone has been not paying attention. edit: turns out it was I who was not paying attention, not realising that's it not about affordable IPSs in general but this specific size.
- epaik 14y agoThis is news to me. Sure, you could probably by A IPS LCD for 200 quid two years ago, but a 27" one?
- Paul_S 14y agoI don't know, I'm not in the economic class that can afford things like that so I wouldn't even consider such a size. With the added distance requirement I don't think I could even fit one on my desk. Is 27" the comfort sweetspot then?
- pja 14y agoDepends what you want to do! If you have the eyesight for it, you can fit a lot of code on a 2560x1440 panel & because it's IPS you don't get a colour shift from looking at oblique angles.
- pja 14y agoYeah me too. A 2560x1440 S-IPS panel for £200? Never seen one. TN panels have been down at that price & lower for ages, but not IPS ones.
- Paul_S 14y agoDell U2312HM 23" IPS LED Monitor - £187.66 ...and similar ones. I remember there were quite a handful of them when I was picking mine (I bought a ViewSonic one because it was the cheapest swivel option).
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- kecebongsoft 14y agoI own a 27" Samsung SyncMaster P2770, it's a TN panel, didn't know about any of these things when I bought it, whish I could be patient and research more. I'm not so much for viewing angle, so I'm just wondering how different the color reproduction quality is compared to any average IPS panel. If you just browsing around and doing stuff in terminal, is it worth to get one?
- Paul_S 14y agoIf you're a freak like me and swivel your monitor 90 degrees into portrait orientation it makes a massive difference (even if only because of the viewing angle - the horizontal and vertical viewing sensitivities are different and more optimised for the portrait mode).
- AjithAntony 14y agoIsn't the pixel orientation geared for landscape? Every monitor I've used just doesn't look right in portrait. I've tried turning off ClearType (I'm using windows) but just looks strange. I don't know exactly how to communicate what it is, but it's just not good. I've tried it with 3 generations of mid-range Samsung TN panels, and most recently with Dell 2007FP and U2412. There is a guy I work with who uses two 20" 16:9 TN panels in portrait orientation, and it always looks bad to me. He says it looks fine.
- unwiredben 14y agoThat's an artifact of the TN panels... IPS panels are like those on the iPad and can be viewed from any angle without bad color distortion.
- AjithAntony 14y agoYeah, that's what I expected, but is sadly not the case. I don't know what variety of IPS the 2007FP is but the U2412 is e-IPS. Perhaps I need to pay some real money and go with the H-IPS or S-IPS to get that experience. Maybe I can score one of these knock-off Korean monitors to test that. I also feel like maybe the glare coating could be contributing to the problem. I should get a glossy one to test. Oh, btw, I think the colors are fine from any angle or orientation. The best way I can describe the problem is that the "sharpness" is off.
- robomartin 14y agoIPS has been around for a long, long time. Pricing might be a reflection of many things. Bad or questionable panels are one potential example. Another might be an EOL panel or monitor (End Of Life). Translation: They are not made or supported any more. It can also be an old model. I spent some time in the LCD OEM business. The simplest way I can put it is that the major LCD module providers defecate all over LCD monitor manufacturers. Their defecate takes the form or panels that sometimes are good and other times are bad. Sometimes the bad is obvious (remember the purple aluminum Apple Cinema Displays?). Sometimes it isn't (reliability issues, pixel issues, etc. The panel makers also pull stuff like discontinuing panels seemingly overnight and changing specifications on you without notice. We saw a case where the manufacturer changed the logic power supply specification for a panel from 12V to 5V and didn't bother to tell anyone. They shipped us new panels. Monitors started to blow-up during testing. I mean, smoke coming out of them. It wasn't until we burned-up the equivalent of a small BMW (or two) of OEM LCD panels that we came to the realization that the manufacturer had caused this issue. All we got was a new data-sheet out of them. It's a rough business to be in. Ugly as can be. The sheer size of the providers and sole-source nature of the products create a situation where, for the most part, these companies are above the law (don't ask me how I know this) and can fuck with you --the monitor manufacturer-- to no end. The only companies that don't get screwed with as much are the large players like the HP, Dell and Apple's of the industry. IPS panels of very high resolution have been around for quite some time. Probably the most famous of these was the IBM-originated quad-HD 3840 x 2160 22 inch panel. Memory fails but I'll say that this panel goes back at least fifteen years. OEM cost started out around $20K and dropped to about $6K with time. My concern with these 27 inch monitors would be about the unknowns. They could be just fine. But they could also not be OK in a million ways. Did they, for example, not make it to US and European shores because they did not pass safety tests? I don't know. No amount of money will compel me to, quite literally, play with fire. Do they have system-level premature failure modes such as questionable power supplies or the like? Don't know. Or how about panel-level issues, such as high failure rates or deterioration with time, temperature, etc. Buy them if you must, but be very aware of what you are not buying. I, as an example, would not leave these things plugged in and unattended. I'd plug them all into a power strip and switch them off every time I leave the room for more than thirty minutes. While I am not saying that a fire is the unavoidable consequence of paying so little for them I am proposing that, sometimes, when thing are too good to be true there's a reason for that.
- sp332 14y agoThis article doesn't mention, that these panels don't have the decryption hardware for DHCP. That means you won't be able to watch blu-rays on this monitor.
- nitrogen 14y agoUnless, of course, you live in a country without a DMCA-type law, and you rip your legally owned discs to a media server.
- sp332 14y agoIf you play them from a media server, it's not really a blu-ray anymore :) Oh actually I just remembered that AnyDVD HD transparently decrypts Blu-rays. http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html
- ojbyrne 14y agoI think you meant HDCP. DHCP is something else entirely.
- sp332 14y agoD'oh, yes, thanks :)
- nachteilig 14y agoEven though I kind of wish people would not spread the gospel on this issue, since I'd like the prices to stay low, I can report that I bought 2 of these some weeks ago and really, really love the result.
- nazgulnarsil 14y agoeconomies of scale vastly outweigh short term demand fluctuations in determining technology prices.
- devindotcom 14y agoMan, does it have to be a revolution?
- gcb 14y agoBuying from overseas is all nice to avoid stupid price hikes for things like HDCP (die in a fire already!).... but what about useful regulations? like amount of lead, etc? you're totally in the dark for anything like that.
- kevhsu 14y agoCorrection to the article: The majority of the displays only have DVI, but a few have DP, HDMI, and VGA.
- mrpollo 14y agoI've read before that my macbook pro 15" with regular display port wont support the 27" displays, can anyone confirm this is true? even with the Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A? http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A?)
- mwill 14y agoI'm using one of those with a 13" mid2010 mbp to power a 30" display at 2560x1600. It works, just make sure you use a dvi-d cable as well, most of the complaints I noticed about it not working when I was researching it seemed to be because the person hadn't actually got a dvi-d cable to go with the adaptor.
- mrpollo 14y agothanks. I'm running on a 15" late 2009, hoping it works too, I'll look into the cable as well, Thanks!
- pilsetnieks 14y agoI have a 2-year-old 13" MBP that is running a 27" display (2560x1440) just fine (with a DP to DP cable).
- deelowe 14y agoI use a 15" macbook pro with display port on a 27" display at work with the dual link adapter, no problem.
- dbecker 14y agoI keep hearing programmers tell me how much better IPS is than TN, but then they emphasize colors and viewing angles. Are these monitors better for programming and text editing?
- llgrrl_ 14y agoYes. I'm the kind of guy who couldn't care less about retina screens (they don't look that much sharper to me)... but definitely can tell the difference that IPS screens make. In contrast with the TN LCDs that you buy that requires tuning to make the images and text not washed out, with IPS everything looks right out of the box without you having to fix anything. Especially much better text rendering when you turn on subpixel rendering, which is a huge deal to me (I'm typing this on my 22 inches 2209WA which I had for two years and absolutely love).
- jdboyd 14y agoI had one TN display that got unpleasantly dim along the edges when viewed a bit off angle. I could never find a position for that monitor where I could go from sitting straight to slouching without some one of those positions resulting in dim edges. But, aside from that one bad example, if the text is crisp and there a plenty of pixels, then it is probably good enough for programming and text editing. Many programmers also do web design, photograph, games, or other tasks that benefit from a better display though.
- deelowe 14y agoViewing angles matter more on a larger display due to the ratios of the distance from your eyes to the size of the screen. IPS screens have much better viewing angles than TN.
- pbreit 14y agoAm I reading correctly that you shouldn't expect to hook one of these things up to a MacBook?
- sachingulaya 14y agoNo, I did it just fine. Check my comment history.
- DanBlake 14y agoI wish monitor arms could come down in price with them. Its crazy that some of the arms cost as much as the monitor themselves.
- delackner 14y agoThe link below says that LG is about to introduce their own very very cheap HDMI compatible ips 27 inch, the IPS277L-BN for just 30,000 yen. OK in USD that's like $385, but you get HDMI and a real company behind it. Also that price is for Japan so who knows what the US price would be. (in Japanese): http://watchmonoblog.blog71.fc2.com/blog-entry-2304.html http://watchmonoblog.blog71.fc2.com/blog-entry-2304.html [edit: m3koval rightly points out that this monitor is low resolution so only really fit for gaming or video viewing. My mistake. ]
- m3koval 14y agoThat description states a resolution of 1920x1200 instead of the 2560x1440 on these panels. I think 1920x1200 looks pretty awful on a 24" monitor, so I'm sure it will look even worse on one that is 3" larger. It's a shame these monitors don't have an HDMI input. Then again, I can't complain given the price.
- Dox 14y agoVery interesting, which model is the non glossy version
- bytephilia 14y agoCan I use three of those for one 2011 MBP?