4 ms·

So moving to effectively censor criticism that you can't control is justified? Maybe the problem IS marcan, as Linus suggested. If you do things that are in t

So moving to effectively censor criticism that you can't control is justified? Maybe the problem IS marcan, as Linus suggested. If you do things that are in the public interest, people are going to have opinions about what you do and on a wide spectrum. If you can't handle that, you probably shouldn't be doing work that's so public and visible. Especially something like maintainer work that is inherently social.

Philpax 2y ago
[flagged]
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  Do you have a source for this with proof? Or is it just cause someone said so.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - busterarm 2y ago
    It's extra weird to me that people try to live a very public life but then accuse anyone with the slightest amount of criticism of behaving criminally...
    - dralley 2y ago
      Who has made accusations of behaving criminally?..
      - busterarm 2y ago
        doxxing. harassment. And to answer your question of "who?", marcan themselves based on marcan being the one to block HN links. But more generally, the majority of people posting online (especially streamers, content creators, even just twitter posters) these days seem to be very thin-skinned and will claim that any amount of pushback that they get for their words or actions is an organized harassment campaign.
        kyleee 2y ago
        I think you are generally correct. I think also the personality types who become public makers, etc. tend to also be controlling, so any negative comments / discussion, etc. that they can’t suppress really irks them and often they go to great lengths to try to get rid of it
        account42 2y ago
        Yeah it's really weird. Why push your weird subculture into the spotlight and then cry foul when people are weirded out. Kind of feels like it's all about fishing for even more attention.
  - debugnik 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - HideousKojima 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - busterarm 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - debugnik 2y ago
        Holy false equivalence, how is keeping a pseudonimous vtuber identity comparable to verbal abuse, adultery or social media brigading? See, I'm ok with discussing his mistakes as well, but exposing Lina despite being irrelevant, which happens in every thread about her, feels like bigotry. "Heads up, they're one of those!"
- busterarm 2y ago
  I said opinions on a spectrum. Yes, an extreme end of that spectrum is an extreme response. This is something you have to put up with some amount of if you do work in public, just like if you were a public figure or celebrity. Being a kernel or even package maintainer is like being a politician. It sucks, but if your response is to cut off that channel of opinion _entirely_, that says more about you than the people you're silencing. If something violates HN Guidelines, flag it and dang will see it. If there's anything that should be blatantly obvious by now it's that HN's moderation staff does not have the kind of alt-right bias suggested by your quote.
  - zimpenfish 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - busterarm 2y ago
      To think that you can control opinions people have of you in public forums is kind of insane. Also denying links to their site isn't equivalent to "leaving the room". It's more like demolishing the room entirely, given the way that HN works. If your site can't be linked to it can't be the topic of discussion.
      - zimpenfish 2y ago
        [flagged]
        busterarm 2y ago
        No, to your first two points. 100% of the discussion was happening on HN. The blocking of links from HN was 100% about silencing discussion _happening on HN_. It has nothing to with "not letting assholes in". Asahi Linux doesn't have a discussion board. To your third point, also no. HN guidelines keep the content of our posts relevant to the topics they are in. They also guide us to link to original sources, not archive links. Both of these mean that if you can't link to Asahi Linux content, it can't be the topic of discussion unless for some reason it's otherwise newsworthy and was posted elsewhere.
- loeg 2y ago
  I remember that HN thread[0] and don't think Asahi's version is a good-faith, accurate summary of the contents. IMO they are inaccurately viewing a small number of flagged/dead comments as representative of HN in general. [0] probably: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33789940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33789940 , though you could look at any of the big 2022-2023 asahilinux.org discussions and find something flagged/dead
- panick21_ 2y ago
  Basically he has to avoid any community with significant numbers of people. Not liking HN, reddit, twitter and so on, its just a numbers game. To respond to that by trying to cut of access to any place where many people exists is a questionable approach. And judging people simply by from where they arrived in a place is also questionable tactic one that we should not tolerate in real live.
- onli 2y ago
  I call bullshit on that. The Asahi Linux intiative got a lot of respect and praise on this site whenever I looked at those threads. It's very very unlikely that this negative depiction is accurate. Please show a specific example of a thread that got out of hand like that, otherwise this is completely unbelievable. Otherwise I would suggest that it says a lot when downvoting of comments is not understood as disapproval. And that it is a big warning sign when public devs/maintainers hallucinate hostile intentions to other communities as a whole.

Philpax 2y ago

[flagged]

ChocolateGod 2y ago
Do you have a source for this with proof? Or is it just cause someone said so.
HideousKojima 2y ago
[flagged]
- busterarm 2y ago
  It's extra weird to me that people try to live a very public life but then accuse anyone with the slightest amount of criticism of behaving criminally...
  - dralley 2y ago
    Who has made accusations of behaving criminally?..
    - busterarm 2y ago
      doxxing. harassment. And to answer your question of "who?", marcan themselves based on marcan being the one to block HN links. But more generally, the majority of people posting online (especially streamers, content creators, even just twitter posters) these days seem to be very thin-skinned and will claim that any amount of pushback that they get for their words or actions is an organized harassment campaign.
      - kyleee 2y ago
        I think you are generally correct. I think also the personality types who become public makers, etc. tend to also be controlling, so any negative comments / discussion, etc. that they can’t suppress really irks them and often they go to great lengths to try to get rid of it
      - account42 2y ago
        Yeah it's really weird. Why push your weird subculture into the spotlight and then cry foul when people are weirded out. Kind of feels like it's all about fishing for even more attention.
- debugnik 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - busterarm 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - debugnik 2y ago
      Holy false equivalence, how is keeping a pseudonimous vtuber identity comparable to verbal abuse, adultery or social media brigading? See, I'm ok with discussing his mistakes as well, but exposing Lina despite being irrelevant, which happens in every thread about her, feels like bigotry. "Heads up, they're one of those!"
busterarm 2y ago
I said opinions on a spectrum. Yes, an extreme end of that spectrum is an extreme response. This is something you have to put up with some amount of if you do work in public, just like if you were a public figure or celebrity. Being a kernel or even package maintainer is like being a politician. It sucks, but if your response is to cut off that channel of opinion _entirely_, that says more about you than the people you're silencing. If something violates HN Guidelines, flag it and dang will see it. If there's anything that should be blatantly obvious by now it's that HN's moderation staff does not have the kind of alt-right bias suggested by your quote.
- zimpenfish 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - busterarm 2y ago
    To think that you can control opinions people have of you in public forums is kind of insane. Also denying links to their site isn't equivalent to "leaving the room". It's more like demolishing the room entirely, given the way that HN works. If your site can't be linked to it can't be the topic of discussion.
    - zimpenfish 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - busterarm 2y ago
        No, to your first two points. 100% of the discussion was happening on HN. The blocking of links from HN was 100% about silencing discussion _happening on HN_. It has nothing to with "not letting assholes in". Asahi Linux doesn't have a discussion board. To your third point, also no. HN guidelines keep the content of our posts relevant to the topics they are in. They also guide us to link to original sources, not archive links. Both of these mean that if you can't link to Asahi Linux content, it can't be the topic of discussion unless for some reason it's otherwise newsworthy and was posted elsewhere.
loeg 2y ago
I remember that HN thread[0] and don't think Asahi's version is a good-faith, accurate summary of the contents. IMO they are inaccurately viewing a small number of flagged/dead comments as representative of HN in general. [0] probably: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33789940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33789940 , though you could look at any of the big 2022-2023 asahilinux.org discussions and find something flagged/dead
panick21_ 2y ago
Basically he has to avoid any community with significant numbers of people. Not liking HN, reddit, twitter and so on, its just a numbers game. To respond to that by trying to cut of access to any place where many people exists is a questionable approach. And judging people simply by from where they arrived in a place is also questionable tactic one that we should not tolerate in real live.
onli 2y ago
I call bullshit on that. The Asahi Linux intiative got a lot of respect and praise on this site whenever I looked at those threads. It's very very unlikely that this negative depiction is accurate. Please show a specific example of a thread that got out of hand like that, otherwise this is completely unbelievable. Otherwise I would suggest that it says a lot when downvoting of comments is not understood as disapproval. And that it is a big warning sign when public devs/maintainers hallucinate hostile intentions to other communities as a whole.