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Most of us are happy to suffer if it means not relying on Russia. This is the price of independence.

by kriz9 2y ago

cpursley 2y ago
Doesn't it mean you're now dependent on the US (and our particular politics) as well as the middle eastern oil monarchies? Or is the idea to try to source all of the EU energy needs independently?
- bluelu 2y ago
  Yes, it is exactly that.
- fifilura 2y ago
  There are also two cables connecting Sweden to Lithuania and Finland to Estonia. https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ As can be seen in the link, both Sweden and Finland currently exports power to Baltics. Both Sweden and recently Finland are European power-houses when it comes to electricity. Sweden always was (despite what everyone complains about here in Sweden). With a healthy mix of hydro, nuclear and recently wind power. And Finland just recently finished a large new nuclear reactor. Also, in many places of the world (e.g. Scandinavia), electricity does not equal Oil.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  Estonia seems to have only 5% or so of electricity from gas, and zero from oil. Latvia has more gas use, maybe 15% over the year. Lithuania around 10% gas. 90% independent isn't too bad. (Data eyeballed from the annual charts on app.electricitymaps.com)
- arlort 2y ago
  I think you and other in this thread are mixing up a few topics. The grids are being disconnected from russia but that doesn't mean that estonia was dependent on Russia for electricity before that Looking at this https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/import/est/all/5271600/2022 https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/import/est/all/... it seems like even before the 2022 war Estonian imports from russia of electricity were close to zero The concern with having the grids connected to Russia rather than the EU is that Russia might exploit this in the future (inducing instability on the grid for instance) so switching to the EU removes that risk As for the US and ME monarchies, this applies more in general to the EU as a whole which depends quite a lot on imports for fossil fuels, but not all dependencies are made equal and at least for now Saudis and Americans haven't been invading countries in our neighborhood so I'd still take them over the Russians The ideal scenario would be reducing as much as possible that dependency which is why there's a bunch of interest in renewables, energy efficiency and nuclear across the continent
  - cpursley 2y ago
    I quite enjoyed the “in our neighborhood” bit ;)
- bluGill 2y ago
  Middle eastern monarchies are currently better than Russian "democracy". If you had asked me 30 years ago I would have said differently. If you ask again in 30 years I have no idea what I will say. The US likewise has good and bad points and exactly how they come to play changes over time. There is a lot to dislike about the EU as well which anyone living there should be concerned about more than the US (though since I live in the US I worry more about the US - I have a chance to change it maybe)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
corund 2y ago
you are located in Berlin and happy that estonians will pay x5 for electricity?
cingraa 2y ago
The poor people will be suffering even more. No trade in electricity, but also no trade with natural gas.

Most of us are happy to suffer if it means not relying on Russia. This is the price of independence.

by kriz9 2y ago

Most of us are happy to suffer if it means not relying on Russia. This is the price of independence.

Doesn't it mean you're now dependent on the US (and our particular politics) as well as the middle eastern oil monarchies? Or is the idea to try to source all of the EU energy needs independently?

bluelu 2y ago
Yes, it is exactly that.
fifilura 2y ago
There are also two cables connecting Sweden to Lithuania and Finland to Estonia. https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ As can be seen in the link, both Sweden and Finland currently exports power to Baltics. Both Sweden and recently Finland are European power-houses when it comes to electricity. Sweden always was (despite what everyone complains about here in Sweden). With a healthy mix of hydro, nuclear and recently wind power. And Finland just recently finished a large new nuclear reactor. Also, in many places of the world (e.g. Scandinavia), electricity does not equal Oil.
Symbiote 2y ago
Estonia seems to have only 5% or so of electricity from gas, and zero from oil. Latvia has more gas use, maybe 15% over the year. Lithuania around 10% gas. 90% independent isn't too bad. (Data eyeballed from the annual charts on app.electricitymaps.com)
arlort 2y ago
I think you and other in this thread are mixing up a few topics. The grids are being disconnected from russia but that doesn't mean that estonia was dependent on Russia for electricity before that Looking at this https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/import/est/all/5271600/2022 https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/import/est/all/... it seems like even before the 2022 war Estonian imports from russia of electricity were close to zero The concern with having the grids connected to Russia rather than the EU is that Russia might exploit this in the future (inducing instability on the grid for instance) so switching to the EU removes that risk As for the US and ME monarchies, this applies more in general to the EU as a whole which depends quite a lot on imports for fossil fuels, but not all dependencies are made equal and at least for now Saudis and Americans haven't been invading countries in our neighborhood so I'd still take them over the Russians The ideal scenario would be reducing as much as possible that dependency which is why there's a bunch of interest in renewables, energy efficiency and nuclear across the continent
- cpursley 2y ago
  I quite enjoyed the “in our neighborhood” bit ;)
bluGill 2y ago
Middle eastern monarchies are currently better than Russian "democracy". If you had asked me 30 years ago I would have said differently. If you ask again in 30 years I have no idea what I will say. The US likewise has good and bad points and exactly how they come to play changes over time. There is a lot to dislike about the EU as well which anyone living there should be concerned about more than the US (though since I live in the US I worry more about the US - I have a chance to change it maybe)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

corund 2y ago

you are located in Berlin and happy that estonians will pay x5 for electricity?

cingraa 2y ago

The poor people will be suffering even more. No trade in electricity, but also no trade with natural gas.