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I have lived to the day that we give an example on china not doing something stupid a western democracy does about rights and freedom. Wild times to be alive. I

I have lived to the day that we give an example on china not doing something stupid a western democracy does about rights and freedom. Wild times to be alive. I am also surprised that they demand worldwide access and not just UK users data or all the data stored in UK jurisdiction. But this is going too far.

mathw 2y ago
And if you think China and the USA and Russia wouldn't want it... hey I've got this bridge for sale.
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  The difference is that China and Russia have the sense to spy on foreign citizens with hackers, trackers, and other covert means. Somehow the UK feels entitled to Apple doing their espionage for them, and has the gall to ask publicly. Note that this is not China apologia: they do the same brazen shit locally, but they're an authoritarian regime. I have lower expectations for human rights there.
- shafyy 2y ago
  If you, like me, didn't know where the idiom "I've got a bridge to sell you" comes from, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_C._Parker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_C._Parker George C. Parker was a conman in NYC who multiples times sold the ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge to his victims. Among other cons.
  - bilekas 2y ago
    I know we're going off topic but I remember hearing about this, and reminded me then a similar case in Paris where the Eifel Tower was being sold too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Lustig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Lustig
    - shafyy 2y ago
      Ah, the good ol' days of conman. No, all we've got are crypto scammer =D
  - guappa 2y ago
    Here's a whole movie on various scams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJuxxUoZRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJuxxUoZRw
- bluGill 2y ago
  There are tensions in the US. Those who are charged with stopping cyber crime are very must against this. End to End encryption is one of the better protections they can give you against foreign hackers and they want you to use it. Meanwhile down the hall are people who are charged with investigating crimes someone in the country commits and they are want this. It is a lot easier to prove someone is involved in some crime if a warrant can get their data, but end to end encryption means they can only get random bytes. (of course they don't want warrants either, but that is a different issue not relevant here so they will specify warrants in this debate)
jibe 2y ago
China has forced Apple to outsource iCloud in China to a state run company, so all data is just directly controlled by the government there. It’s an even worse situation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754
- agloe_dreams 2y ago
  That is just China's general rules around tech. Awful? Yes. But not a global issue. Most non-chinese companies are forced to have their chinese properties ran by a chinese company. This is shown by companies like VW having cars made in china with effectively a license model, these cars are designed and built by a third party with a few interesting exceptions (VW actually licensed a design, the Taos, back and shipped it worldwide) The insane overreach was the UK wanting data on people not in the UK
- guappa 2y ago
  At least the CIA doesn't get it… dunno which is worse.
- csomar 2y ago
  How is this worse? This only affects users in China.
  - lern_too_spel 2y ago
    And users who communicate with users in China using Apple services.
    - GoblinSlayer 2y ago
      They can send encrypted PGP messages, e2e was figured out in 1991.
- joseppudev 2y ago
  [flagged]
- Spivak 2y ago
pjmlp 2y ago
It is worse than that, I never expected that most democracies would go back to foregone days, because people get sold out on populism and decided to ignore history lessons. As a child of Portuguese revolution, I am aware of plenty of stories, apparently many folks nowadays think those are stories to scare misbehaved kids.

mathw 2y ago

And if you think China and the USA and Russia wouldn't want it... hey I've got this bridge for sale.

idle_zealot 2y ago
The difference is that China and Russia have the sense to spy on foreign citizens with hackers, trackers, and other covert means. Somehow the UK feels entitled to Apple doing their espionage for them, and has the gall to ask publicly. Note that this is not China apologia: they do the same brazen shit locally, but they're an authoritarian regime. I have lower expectations for human rights there.
shafyy 2y ago
If you, like me, didn't know where the idiom "I've got a bridge to sell you" comes from, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_C._Parker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_C._Parker George C. Parker was a conman in NYC who multiples times sold the ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge to his victims. Among other cons.
- bilekas 2y ago
  I know we're going off topic but I remember hearing about this, and reminded me then a similar case in Paris where the Eifel Tower was being sold too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Lustig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Lustig
  - shafyy 2y ago
    Ah, the good ol' days of conman. No, all we've got are crypto scammer =D
- guappa 2y ago
  Here's a whole movie on various scams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJuxxUoZRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJuxxUoZRw
bluGill 2y ago
There are tensions in the US. Those who are charged with stopping cyber crime are very must against this. End to End encryption is one of the better protections they can give you against foreign hackers and they want you to use it. Meanwhile down the hall are people who are charged with investigating crimes someone in the country commits and they are want this. It is a lot easier to prove someone is involved in some crime if a warrant can get their data, but end to end encryption means they can only get random bytes. (of course they don't want warrants either, but that is a different issue not relevant here so they will specify warrants in this debate)

jibe 2y ago

China has forced Apple to outsource iCloud in China to a state run company, so all data is just directly controlled by the government there. It’s an even worse situation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754

agloe_dreams 2y ago
That is just China's general rules around tech. Awful? Yes. But not a global issue. Most non-chinese companies are forced to have their chinese properties ran by a chinese company. This is shown by companies like VW having cars made in china with effectively a license model, these cars are designed and built by a third party with a few interesting exceptions (VW actually licensed a design, the Taos, back and shipped it worldwide) The insane overreach was the UK wanting data on people not in the UK
guappa 2y ago
At least the CIA doesn't get it… dunno which is worse.
csomar 2y ago
How is this worse? This only affects users in China.
- lern_too_spel 2y ago
  And users who communicate with users in China using Apple services.
  - GoblinSlayer 2y ago
    They can send encrypted PGP messages, e2e was figured out in 1991.
joseppudev 2y ago
[flagged]
Spivak 2y ago

pjmlp 2y ago

It is worse than that, I never expected that most democracies would go back to foregone days, because people get sold out on populism and decided to ignore history lessons. As a child of Portuguese revolution, I am aware of plenty of stories, apparently many folks nowadays think those are stories to scare misbehaved kids.