3 ms·

> Never again can our entire country be locked down on shoddy evidence and lies What’s this about? Is it some mad “covid was a hoax” thing?

fourfour3 2y ago
Yes - Reform UK is a far right populist party. They currently have 5 out of 650 MPs and are steadily gaining popularity - similar to the rise of other parties like AfD across Europe.
- cbeach 2y ago
  "Far right" suggests extremism. Could you name an extremist policy that Reform have proposed?
  - fourfour3 2y ago
    Several specific ones: - Leaving the European Convention on Human Rights (joining the hallowed company of Russia and Belarus!) - leaving the World Health Organisation - get rid of net-zero climate targets, replacing them with fast-tracked approval for more North Sea oil & gas licenses and fracking - public enquiry on “Vaccine Harms”
    - cbeach 2y ago
      1. Nice cherry-picking. The US and Canada (and, in fact, a majority of world nations) are not signatories of the ECHR. Those countries seem to get on just fine without it. In particular they are able to deport dangerous foreign criminals without issue - meaning their citizens are safer. There's nothing extreme about leaving the ECHR. 2. The WHO is notorious for failures in policy e.g. Covid response, bends to political pressure from China (e.g. not respecting Taiwan as an independent entity), and is dependent on private donors like Bill Gates which means they have undue influence. A 2021 probe into the WHO found its staff were involved in sexual abuse during an Ebola outbreak in Congo. There are plenty of reasons for leaving it. There's nothing extreme about leaving the WHO. 3. We absolutely should get the oil and gas we need from our own reserves, rather than buying it from despotic regimes and shipping it half way round the world at great ecological expense. There's nothing "extreme" about using our own natural resources. 4. We know now that there were many serious side effects from the mRNA injections and that the contracts granting lifetime immunity to the manufacturers for harm were extremely suspicious. This is a totally novel form of medical intervention, administered to a large population in a hurry, under intense political pressure. There's nothing "extreme" about an enquiry on mRNA injection harms. What are we afraid of? Uncovering the truth? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10022421/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10022421/ "CV events such as thrombosis, thrombocytopenia, stroke, and myocarditis frequently occur with the mRNA vaccines studied. A significant number of studies included in our review reported BNT162b2 events, which presses the need to conduct more research into the CV implications of mRNA‐1273 (Moderna) vaccine."
cbeach 2y ago
Reform UK don't believe Covid was a hoax. Reform UK believe that the purported efficacy of the mRNA vaccines at preventing transmission was massively exaggerated (we now know it was). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... Reform UK believe that the detrimental side effects of lockdown policy outweighed the benefits of lockdown policy (again, there's evidence to support this view) https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature... "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument." We need more voices that are willing to state these truths in Parliament IMO.
- Aachen 2y ago
  In this other comment I read a rather different story about what ReformUK wants https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42971836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42971836 Your comment makes it sound like they're all about research, but they also want to ditch human rights and the world health organisation? This conflict of logic makes me think there's probably more to it than just research and doing good in the world. Can it be that they speak of e.g. lockdowns having been bad based on that ReformUK voters were particularly badly affected by that policy and that this study after the fact found that, indeed, they did more harm than good? Ignoring that this wasn't necessarily knowable at the time, but it reflects badly on the government to have made a mistake with hindsight and so they can gain votes since they weren't in power back then and thus the fallacy is to think they'd have known better?
  - cbeach 2y ago
    Please see this response: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42973646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42973646
    - 2y ago

fourfour3 2y ago

Yes - Reform UK is a far right populist party. They currently have 5 out of 650 MPs and are steadily gaining popularity - similar to the rise of other parties like AfD across Europe.

cbeach 2y ago
"Far right" suggests extremism. Could you name an extremist policy that Reform have proposed?
- fourfour3 2y ago
  Several specific ones: - Leaving the European Convention on Human Rights (joining the hallowed company of Russia and Belarus!) - leaving the World Health Organisation - get rid of net-zero climate targets, replacing them with fast-tracked approval for more North Sea oil & gas licenses and fracking - public enquiry on “Vaccine Harms”
  - cbeach 2y ago
    1. Nice cherry-picking. The US and Canada (and, in fact, a majority of world nations) are not signatories of the ECHR. Those countries seem to get on just fine without it. In particular they are able to deport dangerous foreign criminals without issue - meaning their citizens are safer. There's nothing extreme about leaving the ECHR. 2. The WHO is notorious for failures in policy e.g. Covid response, bends to political pressure from China (e.g. not respecting Taiwan as an independent entity), and is dependent on private donors like Bill Gates which means they have undue influence. A 2021 probe into the WHO found its staff were involved in sexual abuse during an Ebola outbreak in Congo. There are plenty of reasons for leaving it. There's nothing extreme about leaving the WHO. 3. We absolutely should get the oil and gas we need from our own reserves, rather than buying it from despotic regimes and shipping it half way round the world at great ecological expense. There's nothing "extreme" about using our own natural resources. 4. We know now that there were many serious side effects from the mRNA injections and that the contracts granting lifetime immunity to the manufacturers for harm were extremely suspicious. This is a totally novel form of medical intervention, administered to a large population in a hurry, under intense political pressure. There's nothing "extreme" about an enquiry on mRNA injection harms. What are we afraid of? Uncovering the truth? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10022421/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10022421/ "CV events such as thrombosis, thrombocytopenia, stroke, and myocarditis frequently occur with the mRNA vaccines studied. A significant number of studies included in our review reported BNT162b2 events, which presses the need to conduct more research into the CV implications of mRNA‐1273 (Moderna) vaccine."

cbeach 2y ago

Reform UK don't believe Covid was a hoax. Reform UK believe that the purported efficacy of the mRNA vaccines at preventing transmission was massively exaggerated (we now know it was). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... Reform UK believe that the detrimental side effects of lockdown policy outweighed the benefits of lockdown policy (again, there's evidence to support this view) https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature... "While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument." We need more voices that are willing to state these truths in Parliament IMO.

Aachen 2y ago
In this other comment I read a rather different story about what ReformUK wants https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42971836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42971836 Your comment makes it sound like they're all about research, but they also want to ditch human rights and the world health organisation? This conflict of logic makes me think there's probably more to it than just research and doing good in the world. Can it be that they speak of e.g. lockdowns having been bad based on that ReformUK voters were particularly badly affected by that policy and that this study after the fact found that, indeed, they did more harm than good? Ignoring that this wasn't necessarily knowable at the time, but it reflects badly on the government to have made a mistake with hindsight and so they can gain votes since they weren't in power back then and thus the fallacy is to think they'd have known better?
- cbeach 2y ago
  Please see this response: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42973646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42973646
  - 2y ago