4 ms·

I think the opposite choice would be not purchasing a car at all? I've managed to live without one so far.

ta8645 2y ago
There are some people who can make that choice, and that's preferable. But not everyone can do that. And to leave a single EV unused, just because we hate a single man, is unconscionable for anyone who believes the world actually hangs in the balance.
- woodruffw 2y ago
  As others have pointed out, you could buy a different EV. The market appears to have many options. But also, I simply don't buy the environmental argument here. I'm pretty sure buying a used Toyota Camry and driving it into the ground is better, on net, for the planet than buying a brand new EV.
  - shinryuu 2y ago
    Not sure about that. Use emissions is the majority https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs...
    - woodruffw 2y ago
      Yes, for equivalent cars purchased new. The point was that a 10 year old used sedan than you drive for another 10 years will still produce fewer tailpipe emissions than a new EV's manufacture.
- vasachi 2y ago
  You do know there are other EV manufacturers, right? Tesla can go bankrupt today, and supply will not be all that worse.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 2y ago
  I don't agree that it's unconscionable. To me, supporting a man like Musk who actively promote climate change denial is the worse option.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Teslas are sports cars.
tehjoker 2y ago
mr musk has been instrumental in preventing this option from developing unfortuantely. his "hyperloop" and "boring company" are ploys to distract people and delay the development of high speed rail
- dylan604 2y ago
  I think high speed rail is perfectly capable of finding delays all on its own, and doesn't need this supposed help
  - tehjoker 2y ago
    tell that to China
    - dylan604 2y ago
      You mean the China where nobody has a voice and the government is allowed to do whatever they feel like whenever they feel like to whomever they feel like? The same China where property rights don't exist so there's no need for eminent domain. The same China that, oh nevermind
      - novemp 2y ago
        How about Japan, then?
        dylan604 2y ago
        Good grief. Fine. USofA development of high speed rail does not need any help on finding ways to not get made. </facepalmForPedants>
      - tehjoker 2y ago
        this sounds like sore loser, and honestly, highly propagandized, talk to me. as far as i can tell, China is more democratic
xnx 2y ago
Or squeezing an extra 100K miles out of a vehicle that was headed for the scrapper.
- woodruffw 2y ago
  Right. I think the environmental argument for EVs rings pretty hollow until we've exhausted the world's extremely large supply of used cars (and built commuter rail just about everywhere even marginally economical; the US circa 1920 would be a good reference point).
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    If there was a gross over abundance of used cars, they would be extremely cheap. They aren't cheap. Shifting new sales from gas to EV is also likely to be more effective than wishing for more transit.
    - woodruffw 2y ago
      It’s not that simple: the economics of used cars are tied to export patterns and to cultural norms. In other words: used cars aren’t (relatively) expensive because they’re actually scarce goods; they’re relatively expensive because Americans generally like buying new cars and therefore don’t support a larger used car market. Besides, it’s a relative comparison: a used older car is still going to be cheaper. We’re talking about Teslas, which are luxury sport vehicles.
      - maxerickson 2y ago
        My observation is about the dynamics of the used car market (reliable cars that are out of warranty still command relatively high prices), it's not a comparison to the cost of new, high end electric vehicles. My point was that the firm prices in the used market actually reflect demand for those cars and they aren't just tragically going to waste, a counter to your disgust at our supposed refusal to use them up. If they are getting exported and used up, that still prevents them from being available cheaply here.

There are some people who can make that choice, and that's preferable. But not everyone can do that. And to leave a single EV unused, just because we hate a single man, is unconscionable for anyone who believes the world actually hangs in the balance.

woodruffw 2y ago
As others have pointed out, you could buy a different EV. The market appears to have many options. But also, I simply don't buy the environmental argument here. I'm pretty sure buying a used Toyota Camry and driving it into the ground is better, on net, for the planet than buying a brand new EV.
- shinryuu 2y ago
  Not sure about that. Use emissions is the majority https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs...
  - woodruffw 2y ago
    Yes, for equivalent cars purchased new. The point was that a 10 year old used sedan than you drive for another 10 years will still produce fewer tailpipe emissions than a new EV's manufacture.
vasachi 2y ago
You do know there are other EV manufacturers, right? Tesla can go bankrupt today, and supply will not be all that worse.
tuwtuwtuwtuw 2y ago
I don't agree that it's unconscionable. To me, supporting a man like Musk who actively promote climate change denial is the worse option.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
Teslas are sports cars.

tehjoker 2y ago

mr musk has been instrumental in preventing this option from developing unfortuantely. his "hyperloop" and "boring company" are ploys to distract people and delay the development of high speed rail

dylan604 2y ago
I think high speed rail is perfectly capable of finding delays all on its own, and doesn't need this supposed help
- tehjoker 2y ago
  tell that to China
  - dylan604 2y ago
    You mean the China where nobody has a voice and the government is allowed to do whatever they feel like whenever they feel like to whomever they feel like? The same China where property rights don't exist so there's no need for eminent domain. The same China that, oh nevermind
    - novemp 2y ago
      How about Japan, then?
      - dylan604 2y ago
        Good grief. Fine. USofA development of high speed rail does not need any help on finding ways to not get made. </facepalmForPedants>
    - tehjoker 2y ago
      this sounds like sore loser, and honestly, highly propagandized, talk to me. as far as i can tell, China is more democratic

xnx 2y ago

Or squeezing an extra 100K miles out of a vehicle that was headed for the scrapper.

woodruffw 2y ago
Right. I think the environmental argument for EVs rings pretty hollow until we've exhausted the world's extremely large supply of used cars (and built commuter rail just about everywhere even marginally economical; the US circa 1920 would be a good reference point).
- maxerickson 2y ago
  If there was a gross over abundance of used cars, they would be extremely cheap. They aren't cheap. Shifting new sales from gas to EV is also likely to be more effective than wishing for more transit.
  - woodruffw 2y ago
    It’s not that simple: the economics of used cars are tied to export patterns and to cultural norms. In other words: used cars aren’t (relatively) expensive because they’re actually scarce goods; they’re relatively expensive because Americans generally like buying new cars and therefore don’t support a larger used car market. Besides, it’s a relative comparison: a used older car is still going to be cheaper. We’re talking about Teslas, which are luxury sport vehicles.
    - maxerickson 2y ago
      My observation is about the dynamics of the used car market (reliable cars that are out of warranty still command relatively high prices), it's not a comparison to the cost of new, high end electric vehicles. My point was that the firm prices in the used market actually reflect demand for those cars and they aren't just tragically going to waste, a counter to your disgust at our supposed refusal to use them up. If they are getting exported and used up, that still prevents them from being available cheaply here.