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> suburbia is supposedly better for kids even though they have nothing to do and rely on their parents to be driven to every activity. That's a USofAian "subur

> suburbia is supposedly better for kids even though they have nothing to do and rely on their parents to be driven to every activity. That's a USofAian "suburb" .. not a well designed suburb. There are many types of "dense", ranging from all skyscrapers, through (say) dense row housing with much open space, to big single house blocks everywhere (arguably the worst form). Elsewhere in the world suburbs are surrounded by green belts and have embedded parks, footpaths and cycleways, shops, etc that are reachable without cars.

deleted 2y ago
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kennysoona 2y ago
> That's a USofAian "suburb" . Better to just say 'American', FYI. It's much clearer and the ambiguity you are trying to avoid doesn't exist.
- deleted 2y ago
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- devilbunny 2y ago
  I would guess some Latin American origins. They have a very persistent meme culture that is upset that, in English, when you say “American”, you mean “from the United States of America”. Whereas, at least in Spanish-speaking countries, they have a different mental model of the world’s landmasses and the entire western hemisphere is “America”. Not North or South as separate continents; it’s like being “European”. So, while in, say, Argentina, I might be careful to call myself “estadounidense” (my Spanish is poor, please forgive spelling and suffix errors), it’s really not an issue in our southern neighbor, which is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos (United Mexican States) so, “estadounidense” applies equally to them. And yes, I have spent time in Mexico City, and nobody got in my face for saying “soy Americano”. Most of the visitors are going to be from other parts of Mexico or from the US, with a significant minority of Canadians.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > I would guess some Latin American origins. It's generally white people thinking they are solving a problem, honestly. Even if some people don't like that 'America' tends to refer to the US rather than something general to the continent or one or both of the continents, it doesn't really matter - there is never any ambiguity. The contexts talking about something the US is doing vs the continents are pretty much always crystal clear.
  - javier123454321 2y ago
    > And yes, I have spent time in Mexico City, and nobody got in my face for saying “soy Americano”. Oh but you can basically guarantee there's an inner eye roll everytime you call yourself Americano. Estadounidense works, as Estados Unidos Mexicanos is largely not in use, and Mexicano(a) is the prefered term. It's not a different mental model, it's just a mis translation. In Spanish saying "soy Americano" translates to 'I am from the Americas'. That's why the preference is to just use Estadounidense. It effectively means that US people are wrong if they say 'soy Americano' in Spanish, and Latin Americans are wrong for saying 'I am American' is wrong in english.
    - devilbunny 2y ago
      I can live with inner eye rolls when I fuck up their language if they can live with the inner eye rolls when they fuck up mine. I'm even entirely open to gentle, friendly correction. I've gotten this in France; it was said with a smile, not a snarl, so I appreciated it. Like I said, nobody got in my face about it.
      - javier123454321 2y ago
        You seem very worked up about this. Glad no one mentioned. Just letting you know it's a mistranslation.
rmccue 2y ago
> That's a USofAian "suburb" .. not a well designed suburb. If you don’t want to say “American”, you could use Usonian, a term coined by Lloyd Wright himself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usonia
- defrost 2y ago
  I'm familiar with Wright's coinage, props for raising it! I'm happy with US citizen, USian, USofAian, etc, I've used all of them since pre WWW Usenet days. It's interesting how some like to regulate the language of others.
  - scld 2y ago
    Society "regulating" the language of others is almost entirely how languages develop. USofAian is almost unreadable and unrecognizable in text to the general public when compared with American.
    - defrost 2y ago
      And yet in 40+ years I've yet to exchange text with anyone that didn't understand it.
      - kennysoona 2y ago
        That you've been using it that long is pretty bizarre to me. I guess it was just a way to stand out? Express some personality with a bit of semantic flair? I get that. And no, in answer to your deleted replies, I'm not American, just someone that doesn't like seeing ambiguity created unnecessarily or misinformation spread, but I see now you were doing it more for stylistic reasons.
        defrost 2y ago
        > That you've been using it that long is pretty bizarre to me. Obviously. > I guess it was just a way to stand out? No. > Express some personality with a bit of semantic flair? Again, no. > I get that. Do you have examples of semantic flair that you use to stand out? > just someone that doesn't like seeing ambiguity created unnecessarily What ambiguity? Which other citizens of which other country did you honestly think I was referring to? > or misinformation spread, What misinfomation? I honestly and in good faith have no idea what "misinformation" you are referring to. > but I see now you were doing it more for stylistic reasons. For the third time. No. Stop trying to make your contextual PoV a thing Gretchen. This is literally no more than a useful contraction of "United States of America citizen"
mhandley 2y ago
I live in SW London. It's definitely suburbia, but the density is just about perfect, at least as I see it. Since about age 11 my kids were fairly free range - they could hang about outside with their friends (the street is very quiet, and there's a green space opposite), cycle to their friends, or use the frequent buses and trains, though we'd drive and pick them up if they were out late. Most weeks though, my car doesn't move Monday to Friday - I cycle to the station. There's plenty of green space around, and sailing and kayaking on the River Thames. But the good public transport and ability to cycle all around only really works because housing density is high. We have a four floor town house, so plenty of floor area but a fairly small garden. When we moved here, I thought it would be for just a few years, until we could afford somewhere with more land. Living previously in California, Massachusetts and elsewhere in the UK, it wasn't really my image of an ideal place. But we've been here 20 years and although I could afford to move anywhere now, I don't want to. I'm happy here. My neighbours are my friends, everyone knows everyone else, and I feel no need to try and impress anyone with how much land I have. Anyway, my point is that there probably is an optimal density for cities, and some European cities probably come close to that optimal.

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kennysoona 2y ago

> That's a USofAian "suburb" . Better to just say 'American', FYI. It's much clearer and the ambiguity you are trying to avoid doesn't exist.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
devilbunny 2y ago
I would guess some Latin American origins. They have a very persistent meme culture that is upset that, in English, when you say “American”, you mean “from the United States of America”. Whereas, at least in Spanish-speaking countries, they have a different mental model of the world’s landmasses and the entire western hemisphere is “America”. Not North or South as separate continents; it’s like being “European”. So, while in, say, Argentina, I might be careful to call myself “estadounidense” (my Spanish is poor, please forgive spelling and suffix errors), it’s really not an issue in our southern neighbor, which is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos (United Mexican States) so, “estadounidense” applies equally to them. And yes, I have spent time in Mexico City, and nobody got in my face for saying “soy Americano”. Most of the visitors are going to be from other parts of Mexico or from the US, with a significant minority of Canadians.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > I would guess some Latin American origins. It's generally white people thinking they are solving a problem, honestly. Even if some people don't like that 'America' tends to refer to the US rather than something general to the continent or one or both of the continents, it doesn't really matter - there is never any ambiguity. The contexts talking about something the US is doing vs the continents are pretty much always crystal clear.
- javier123454321 2y ago
  > And yes, I have spent time in Mexico City, and nobody got in my face for saying “soy Americano”. Oh but you can basically guarantee there's an inner eye roll everytime you call yourself Americano. Estadounidense works, as Estados Unidos Mexicanos is largely not in use, and Mexicano(a) is the prefered term. It's not a different mental model, it's just a mis translation. In Spanish saying "soy Americano" translates to 'I am from the Americas'. That's why the preference is to just use Estadounidense. It effectively means that US people are wrong if they say 'soy Americano' in Spanish, and Latin Americans are wrong for saying 'I am American' is wrong in english.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    I can live with inner eye rolls when I fuck up their language if they can live with the inner eye rolls when they fuck up mine. I'm even entirely open to gentle, friendly correction. I've gotten this in France; it was said with a smile, not a snarl, so I appreciated it. Like I said, nobody got in my face about it.
    - javier123454321 2y ago
      You seem very worked up about this. Glad no one mentioned. Just letting you know it's a mistranslation.

rmccue 2y ago

> That's a USofAian "suburb" .. not a well designed suburb. If you don’t want to say “American”, you could use Usonian, a term coined by Lloyd Wright himself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usonia

defrost 2y ago
I'm familiar with Wright's coinage, props for raising it! I'm happy with US citizen, USian, USofAian, etc, I've used all of them since pre WWW Usenet days. It's interesting how some like to regulate the language of others.
- scld 2y ago
  Society "regulating" the language of others is almost entirely how languages develop. USofAian is almost unreadable and unrecognizable in text to the general public when compared with American.
  - defrost 2y ago
    And yet in 40+ years I've yet to exchange text with anyone that didn't understand it.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      That you've been using it that long is pretty bizarre to me. I guess it was just a way to stand out? Express some personality with a bit of semantic flair? I get that. And no, in answer to your deleted replies, I'm not American, just someone that doesn't like seeing ambiguity created unnecessarily or misinformation spread, but I see now you were doing it more for stylistic reasons.
      - defrost 2y ago
        > That you've been using it that long is pretty bizarre to me. Obviously. > I guess it was just a way to stand out? No. > Express some personality with a bit of semantic flair? Again, no. > I get that. Do you have examples of semantic flair that you use to stand out? > just someone that doesn't like seeing ambiguity created unnecessarily What ambiguity? Which other citizens of which other country did you honestly think I was referring to? > or misinformation spread, What misinfomation? I honestly and in good faith have no idea what "misinformation" you are referring to. > but I see now you were doing it more for stylistic reasons. For the third time. No. Stop trying to make your contextual PoV a thing Gretchen. This is literally no more than a useful contraction of "United States of America citizen"

mhandley 2y ago

I live in SW London. It's definitely suburbia, but the density is just about perfect, at least as I see it. Since about age 11 my kids were fairly free range - they could hang about outside with their friends (the street is very quiet, and there's a green space opposite), cycle to their friends, or use the frequent buses and trains, though we'd drive and pick them up if they were out late. Most weeks though, my car doesn't move Monday to Friday - I cycle to the station. There's plenty of green space around, and sailing and kayaking on the River Thames. But the good public transport and ability to cycle all around only really works because housing density is high. We have a four floor town house, so plenty of floor area but a fairly small garden. When we moved here, I thought it would be for just a few years, until we could afford somewhere with more land. Living previously in California, Massachusetts and elsewhere in the UK, it wasn't really my image of an ideal place. But we've been here 20 years and although I could afford to move anywhere now, I don't want to. I'm happy here. My neighbours are my friends, everyone knows everyone else, and I feel no need to try and impress anyone with how much land I have. Anyway, my point is that there probably is an optimal density for cities, and some European cities probably come close to that optimal.