10 ms·

Christopher Alexander's A Pattern Language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language) has a few words t

by riffic 2y ago

Christopher Alexander's A Pattern Language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language) has a few words to say about skyscrapers: https://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl021.htm https://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl021.htm

iknowstuff 2y ago
well this guy is an idiot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouverism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouverism - many advantages to tall dense development. Especially stupid are his comments about how suburbia is supposedly better for kids even though they have nothing to do and rely on their parents to be driven to every activity. All based entirely on his made up anecdote. People are less lonely in dense cities than they are in suburbs.
- sonofhans 2y ago
  Calling Christopher Alexander an idiot in the context of architecture or urbanism is like calling Linus Torvalds a casual programmer. Peak Dunning-Kruger.
  - iknowstuff 2y ago
    This is an appeal to authority. His arguments were prevalent in the 70s, but no less stupid, and we know better now. We have data to prove it too, unlike his unsubstantiated opinion piece.
    - sonofhans 2y ago
      Well, you seem pretty certain about all this. Most architects and planners I know are less so. I’ve worked with hundreds, and I know very few who would look me in the eye and say, “Yes, I’d rather raise my kid downtown in a high rise over a tree-filled neighborhood next to a park.” Alexander isn’t making arguments about economic efficiency, but about what’s good for the human animal. I’d be curious what data you have to disprove this. Now, if you’re talking about his specific claims like “the higher you are in a building the crazier you get,” yeah, I don’t think much of that supposed data is useful.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Or perhaps like calling Paul Ehrlich, the pre-eminent expert on Malthusian theory, a dabbler in ecology.
- defrost 2y ago
  > suburbia is supposedly better for kids even though they have nothing to do and rely on their parents to be driven to every activity. That's a USofAian "suburb" .. not a well designed suburb. There are many types of "dense", ranging from all skyscrapers, through (say) dense row housing with much open space, to big single house blocks everywhere (arguably the worst form). Elsewhere in the world suburbs are surrounded by green belts and have embedded parks, footpaths and cycleways, shops, etc that are reachable without cars.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > That's a USofAian "suburb" . Better to just say 'American', FYI. It's much clearer and the ambiguity you are trying to avoid doesn't exist.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - devilbunny 2y ago
      I would guess some Latin American origins. They have a very persistent meme culture that is upset that, in English, when you say “American”, you mean “from the United States of America”. Whereas, at least in Spanish-speaking countries, they have a different mental model of the world’s landmasses and the entire western hemisphere is “America”. Not North or South as separate continents; it’s like being “European”. So, while in, say, Argentina, I might be careful to call myself “estadounidense” (my Spanish is poor, please forgive spelling and suffix errors), it’s really not an issue in our southern neighbor, which is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos (United Mexican States) so, “estadounidense” applies equally to them. And yes, I have spent time in Mexico City, and nobody got in my face for saying “soy Americano”. Most of the visitors are going to be from other parts of Mexico or from the US, with a significant minority of Canadians.
      - kennysoona 2y ago
- riffic 2y ago
  Ah, you didn't catch the last line: > And finally, don't take the four-story limit too literally. Occasional exceptions from the general rule are very important - High Places (62) https://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl062.htm https://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl062.htm
- NoThisIsMe 2y ago
  Alexander doesn't like sky scrapers, but he absolutely does not advocate for suburbia, at least not the the car-dependent hellscape you presumably have in mind. You can archive considerable density without skyscrapers. In fact we've been building vibrant, walkable cities without skyscrapers for most of history.

by riffic 2y ago

iknowstuff 2y ago

well this guy is an idiot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouverism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouverism - many advantages to tall dense development. Especially stupid are his comments about how suburbia is supposedly better for kids even though they have nothing to do and rely on their parents to be driven to every activity. All based entirely on his made up anecdote. People are less lonely in dense cities than they are in suburbs.

sonofhans 2y ago
Calling Christopher Alexander an idiot in the context of architecture or urbanism is like calling Linus Torvalds a casual programmer. Peak Dunning-Kruger.
- iknowstuff 2y ago
  This is an appeal to authority. His arguments were prevalent in the 70s, but no less stupid, and we know better now. We have data to prove it too, unlike his unsubstantiated opinion piece.
  - sonofhans 2y ago
    Well, you seem pretty certain about all this. Most architects and planners I know are less so. I’ve worked with hundreds, and I know very few who would look me in the eye and say, “Yes, I’d rather raise my kid downtown in a high rise over a tree-filled neighborhood next to a park.” Alexander isn’t making arguments about economic efficiency, but about what’s good for the human animal. I’d be curious what data you have to disprove this. Now, if you’re talking about his specific claims like “the higher you are in a building the crazier you get,” yeah, I don’t think much of that supposed data is useful.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Or perhaps like calling Paul Ehrlich, the pre-eminent expert on Malthusian theory, a dabbler in ecology.
defrost 2y ago
> suburbia is supposedly better for kids even though they have nothing to do and rely on their parents to be driven to every activity. That's a USofAian "suburb" .. not a well designed suburb. There are many types of "dense", ranging from all skyscrapers, through (say) dense row housing with much open space, to big single house blocks everywhere (arguably the worst form). Elsewhere in the world suburbs are surrounded by green belts and have embedded parks, footpaths and cycleways, shops, etc that are reachable without cars.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > That's a USofAian "suburb" . Better to just say 'American', FYI. It's much clearer and the ambiguity you are trying to avoid doesn't exist.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    I would guess some Latin American origins. They have a very persistent meme culture that is upset that, in English, when you say “American”, you mean “from the United States of America”. Whereas, at least in Spanish-speaking countries, they have a different mental model of the world’s landmasses and the entire western hemisphere is “America”. Not North or South as separate continents; it’s like being “European”. So, while in, say, Argentina, I might be careful to call myself “estadounidense” (my Spanish is poor, please forgive spelling and suffix errors), it’s really not an issue in our southern neighbor, which is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos (United Mexican States) so, “estadounidense” applies equally to them. And yes, I have spent time in Mexico City, and nobody got in my face for saying “soy Americano”. Most of the visitors are going to be from other parts of Mexico or from the US, with a significant minority of Canadians.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
riffic 2y ago
Ah, you didn't catch the last line: > And finally, don't take the four-story limit too literally. Occasional exceptions from the general rule are very important - High Places (62) https://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl062.htm https://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl062.htm
NoThisIsMe 2y ago
Alexander doesn't like sky scrapers, but he absolutely does not advocate for suburbia, at least not the the car-dependent hellscape you presumably have in mind. You can archive considerable density without skyscrapers. In fact we've been building vibrant, walkable cities without skyscrapers for most of history.