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Speaking as a conservative who acknowledges that Trump and his friends often go overboard: 1. This looks like a false flag operation to me -- as though a museu

Speaking as a conservative who acknowledges that Trump and his friends often go overboard: 1. This looks like a false flag operation to me -- as though a museum curator, wanting to show how absurd Trump's and Musk's policies are, covered the plaques as an act of protest. Which is fine, but he or she should come clean about it. 2. *"As much as this administration eschews truth and honesty, it is important that we not allow it to erase history," Johnson said.* I totally agree with Johnson on this point, and if the left-wing activists of the early 2020s had held to that view, they wouldn't have pulled down all of those statues that were testaments to our nation's sometimes honorable, sometimes sordid history.

rbanffy 2y ago
> but he or she should come clean about it. I believe they acted in compliance to the letter of the executive order. The fact that complying with the order yields absurd results is not the fault of who complies with them. > they wouldn't have pulled down all of those statues that were testaments to our nation's sometimes honorable, sometimes sordid history. Communities should decide who is honored with statues they see every day. Should Ukraine have statues of Stalin preserved, so that the fact he existed is never forgotten? The people in those civil-war statues (AFAIK, they were mostly manufactured in factories from standard parts with limited customization, ordered by catalog, and delivered over a relatively short period of time) are certainly adequately covered in literature and archived documents.
- pmdulaney 2y ago
  As to your first point, are you suggesting that a memo was sent out , dictating that plaques honoring protected groups were to be covered over? I highly doubt that. And if there had been such a directive, don't you think that it would have specified that the plaques were to be removed entirely, not merely covered over? As for your second point, by the same reasoning, the California Missions should be razed to the ground. I disagree, and I think most other Californians disagree with that thinking. And I notice Yale University hasn't been renamed to Mather University yet -- the indignation of the left seems to lose steam when loss of prestige is involved.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    > are you suggesting that a memo was sent out , dictating that plaques honoring protected groups were to be covered over? No. I suggest the terminology is deliberately ambiguous and that it didn't forbid covering plaques honoring protected groups. > California Missions should be razed to the ground. Never suggested anything like that. > I think most other Californians disagree with that thinking. I said it should be up to the people who live in the place.
    - pmdulaney 2y ago
      Ok, I did twist your words a bit -- fair enough. But given that statues were torn down without first conducting referendums first to ensure that most people were in support of the razing, you were opposed to that action?
      - rbanffy 2y ago
        I assume the dismantling had support from local city councils. I don't think a referendum would be needed.
        pmdulaney 2y ago
        en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_removed_during_the_George_Floyd_protests It has been educational for me to peruse this Wikipedia page. It turns out that the vast majority of the statues removed in the aftermath of George Floyd's murder were removed by either government officials or by the owners of the statues themselves. Thanks for the dialog.
NomDePlum 2y ago
What's the basis for claiming it's a false flag operation? The article details the lack of clear direction and issues with dealing with the flood of EO's. Given other actions similar agencies have taken - closing down "DEI" deemed clubs by West point I'm not seeing how this action is out of context to other actions happening and not being reversed elsewhere. There is a lot of erasing going on.
- pmdulaney 2y ago
  If the person responsible for covering the plaques were a gung-ho MAGA Republican, I would have expected there to be some inkling that some effort was made to question this person. More likely, once the aggrieved realized that the "perpetrator" was like-minded, they didn't seek to draw him or her out. An argument from silence, but it is something.
  - NomDePlum 2y ago
    Thanks for the response. I don't find your argument convincing as there are too many similar cases happening currently and the obvious (only) cause is Trumps EO's, but it is good to have the discussion.
    - pmdulaney 2y ago
      Well, thank you too! And if it turns out to have simply been a case of conscientious obedience or fearful timidity, I will happily concede my error.
duxup 2y ago
DEI is such a vague term ... that's a problem with the order then. We're talking about an administration threatening people's jobs, claiming they want to make sure government employees are "loyal" and firing people who are not "loyal". The response to "CYA" seems entirely natural. But it would be very on point for this administration to blame any / all problems on disloyal parties in the government, even if it is their own fault.
- dinkumthinkum 2y ago
  If it’s such a vague term, why not get rid of it, and also being so vague what has the government been paying for?

rbanffy 2y ago

> but he or she should come clean about it. I believe they acted in compliance to the letter of the executive order. The fact that complying with the order yields absurd results is not the fault of who complies with them. > they wouldn't have pulled down all of those statues that were testaments to our nation's sometimes honorable, sometimes sordid history. Communities should decide who is honored with statues they see every day. Should Ukraine have statues of Stalin preserved, so that the fact he existed is never forgotten? The people in those civil-war statues (AFAIK, they were mostly manufactured in factories from standard parts with limited customization, ordered by catalog, and delivered over a relatively short period of time) are certainly adequately covered in literature and archived documents.

pmdulaney 2y ago
As to your first point, are you suggesting that a memo was sent out , dictating that plaques honoring protected groups were to be covered over? I highly doubt that. And if there had been such a directive, don't you think that it would have specified that the plaques were to be removed entirely, not merely covered over? As for your second point, by the same reasoning, the California Missions should be razed to the ground. I disagree, and I think most other Californians disagree with that thinking. And I notice Yale University hasn't been renamed to Mather University yet -- the indignation of the left seems to lose steam when loss of prestige is involved.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  > are you suggesting that a memo was sent out , dictating that plaques honoring protected groups were to be covered over? No. I suggest the terminology is deliberately ambiguous and that it didn't forbid covering plaques honoring protected groups. > California Missions should be razed to the ground. Never suggested anything like that. > I think most other Californians disagree with that thinking. I said it should be up to the people who live in the place.
  - pmdulaney 2y ago
    Ok, I did twist your words a bit -- fair enough. But given that statues were torn down without first conducting referendums first to ensure that most people were in support of the razing, you were opposed to that action?
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      I assume the dismantling had support from local city councils. I don't think a referendum would be needed.
      - pmdulaney 2y ago
        en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_removed_during_the_George_Floyd_protests It has been educational for me to peruse this Wikipedia page. It turns out that the vast majority of the statues removed in the aftermath of George Floyd's murder were removed by either government officials or by the owners of the statues themselves. Thanks for the dialog.

NomDePlum 2y ago

What's the basis for claiming it's a false flag operation? The article details the lack of clear direction and issues with dealing with the flood of EO's. Given other actions similar agencies have taken - closing down "DEI" deemed clubs by West point I'm not seeing how this action is out of context to other actions happening and not being reversed elsewhere. There is a lot of erasing going on.

pmdulaney 2y ago
If the person responsible for covering the plaques were a gung-ho MAGA Republican, I would have expected there to be some inkling that some effort was made to question this person. More likely, once the aggrieved realized that the "perpetrator" was like-minded, they didn't seek to draw him or her out. An argument from silence, but it is something.
- NomDePlum 2y ago
  Thanks for the response. I don't find your argument convincing as there are too many similar cases happening currently and the obvious (only) cause is Trumps EO's, but it is good to have the discussion.
  - pmdulaney 2y ago
    Well, thank you too! And if it turns out to have simply been a case of conscientious obedience or fearful timidity, I will happily concede my error.

duxup 2y ago

DEI is such a vague term ... that's a problem with the order then. We're talking about an administration threatening people's jobs, claiming they want to make sure government employees are "loyal" and firing people who are not "loyal". The response to "CYA" seems entirely natural. But it would be very on point for this administration to blame any / all problems on disloyal parties in the government, even if it is their own fault.

dinkumthinkum 2y ago
If it’s such a vague term, why not get rid of it, and also being so vague what has the government been paying for?