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This is a common form of Gaslighting. The issue is clearly less about the rate than it is the agency. However true, when e.g. driving we feel a degree of agency

This is a common form of Gaslighting. The issue is clearly less about the rate than it is the agency. However true, when e.g. driving we feel a degree of agency, i.e. "If I drive defensively and pay attention my chances of an accident are small". Being in an enclosed space with somebody more physically powerful than you leaves you with very little (if any) ability to do anything about the situations that arise.

JambalayaJimbo 2y ago
Sure but that sense of agency can also give you a false sense of security. It’s impossible to drive perfectly when you are for example tired, and it’s impossible to not be tired sometimes, if driving is your main form of transportation and you’re driving back from parties and events and your day job. You can also be defensive on the subway by avoiding cars with crazy people.
kouru225 2y ago
The issue is not about the agency. It's absolutely about the rate. More death = more problems for our entire society. I mean, you say "it's not about the rate," but how about you tell that to my friend who's husband was killed by a bad driver while he was just minding his business riding his bike? How about you tell that to their two kids? We've defended ourselves with our own two hands for millennia and done just fine. Meanwhile how the hell are you gonna defend yourself when someone veers into your lane at the last second and insta-ganks you with a head on crash?
- cloverich 2y ago
  I'm sorry your friend went through that. I've gone through that as well (a sibling). However distraught we are it doesn't change our perceptions, actual and not, about driving and our agency in it. And it ignores that for most of us, driving is also more pleasant and more convenient. In Austin I took the train to work daily for three years. It was awesome. But it was slower and more expensive than driving, despite the train stops being a 5 minute walk from my home and office. It would be even less convenient for others. Also I had to go back home once because I sat in someone's pee. It was busy enough that I never felt unsafe, but when I take the train in Portland, I have at times been one of the only non homeless people on it. These experiences matter. The (perceived) safety is just another factor on top.

JambalayaJimbo 2y ago

Sure but that sense of agency can also give you a false sense of security. It’s impossible to drive perfectly when you are for example tired, and it’s impossible to not be tired sometimes, if driving is your main form of transportation and you’re driving back from parties and events and your day job. You can also be defensive on the subway by avoiding cars with crazy people.

kouru225 2y ago

The issue is not about the agency. It's absolutely about the rate. More death = more problems for our entire society. I mean, you say "it's not about the rate," but how about you tell that to my friend who's husband was killed by a bad driver while he was just minding his business riding his bike? How about you tell that to their two kids? We've defended ourselves with our own two hands for millennia and done just fine. Meanwhile how the hell are you gonna defend yourself when someone veers into your lane at the last second and insta-ganks you with a head on crash?

cloverich 2y ago
I'm sorry your friend went through that. I've gone through that as well (a sibling). However distraught we are it doesn't change our perceptions, actual and not, about driving and our agency in it. And it ignores that for most of us, driving is also more pleasant and more convenient. In Austin I took the train to work daily for three years. It was awesome. But it was slower and more expensive than driving, despite the train stops being a 5 minute walk from my home and office. It would be even less convenient for others. Also I had to go back home once because I sat in someone's pee. It was busy enough that I never felt unsafe, but when I take the train in Portland, I have at times been one of the only non homeless people on it. These experiences matter. The (perceived) safety is just another factor on top.