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So we have to continue with an ugly bikeshed for the rest of eternity? I think it's very important that whenever it is decided that objectively one way of doing

by tinco 14y ago

So we have to continue with an ugly bikeshed for the rest of eternity? I think it's very important that whenever it is decided that objectively one way of doing it is better than another way that eventually that way finds itself to be the way it is. You basically imply that this change is not big enough to warrant a break with backwards compatibility, but small discontinuities and hacks add up. If thinks like this aren't fixed every once in a while the system will be ridden with inconsistencies. Besides, even though it hurts when you've inherited some crazy unreadable code that utilizes some obsoleted functionality I think it is always positive for the code quality when the chaos monkey comes around and breaks something. edit: the downvote button is to indicate I am detrimental to the discussion, the reply button is for when you disagree with me :)

sdoering 14y ago
>> edit: the downvote button is to indicate I am detrimental to the discussion, the reply button is for when you disagree with me :) seconded What I do not understand is why (so it feels) recently, a lot of disagreement is done via the downvote, if someone actually just rationally states his/her opinion. So back to topic...
uxp 14y ago
If this actually fixes a legitimate problem (which is what?), I don't think anyone thinks that it shouldn't be fixed, just not at a x.12 release. This changes breaks rgrep, thus it should be held until a full version (3.0). edit: my FreeBSD's `grep` manpage: -R, -r, --recursive Read all files under each directory, recursively; this is equiv- alent to the -d recurse option.
- tinco 14y ago
  I think many people think it should not be fixed, even though it has a use case which is mentioned elsewhere in the comments. I absolutely agree than any changes to interface like this should be in clearly defined milestone releases, possibly allowing patches to be backported to legacy versions.
- koenigdavidmj 14y ago
  FreeBSD grep is just GNU grep, it appears, up to but not including 9.0. Note the long --recursive option in the manual page snippet that you posted; no properly God-fearing BSD program would support long options.
  - jasomill 14y ago
    The new non-GNU grep in FreeBSD 9 was designed to be compatible with GNU grep (pedantically, with GNU grep configured with --disable-perl-regexp as it has been in previous FreeBSD releases) because lots of ports depend on GNU grep behavior. The fear of God is not a sufficient reason to break ports.
warmfuzzykitten 14y ago
I disagree. This is not a "fix" it's an incompatible change to a widely used option for no better reason than a programmer thought the different behavior would be a useful addition to grep. And yes, we have to continue with an ugly bikeshed for the rest of eternity, because a) beauty is highly subjective, and b) the color of the bikeshed is less important than breaking existing software on billions of computers worldwide.

by tinco 14y ago

sdoering 14y ago

>> edit: the downvote button is to indicate I am detrimental to the discussion, the reply button is for when you disagree with me :) seconded What I do not understand is why (so it feels) recently, a lot of disagreement is done via the downvote, if someone actually just rationally states his/her opinion. So back to topic...

uxp 14y ago

If this actually fixes a legitimate problem (which is what?), I don't think anyone thinks that it shouldn't be fixed, just not at a x.12 release. This changes breaks rgrep, thus it should be held until a full version (3.0). edit: my FreeBSD's `grep` manpage: -R, -r, --recursive Read all files under each directory, recursively; this is equiv- alent to the -d recurse option.

tinco 14y ago
I think many people think it should not be fixed, even though it has a use case which is mentioned elsewhere in the comments. I absolutely agree than any changes to interface like this should be in clearly defined milestone releases, possibly allowing patches to be backported to legacy versions.
koenigdavidmj 14y ago
FreeBSD grep is just GNU grep, it appears, up to but not including 9.0. Note the long --recursive option in the manual page snippet that you posted; no properly God-fearing BSD program would support long options.
- jasomill 14y ago
  The new non-GNU grep in FreeBSD 9 was designed to be compatible with GNU grep (pedantically, with GNU grep configured with --disable-perl-regexp as it has been in previous FreeBSD releases) because lots of ports depend on GNU grep behavior. The fear of God is not a sufficient reason to break ports.

warmfuzzykitten 14y ago

I disagree. This is not a "fix" it's an incompatible change to a widely used option for no better reason than a programmer thought the different behavior would be a useful addition to grep. And yes, we have to continue with an ugly bikeshed for the rest of eternity, because a) beauty is highly subjective, and b) the color of the bikeshed is less important than breaking existing software on billions of computers worldwide.