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Do you know if CWWK x86 routers disable Intel BootGuard to allow coreboot? They have: capex: ~3X APU2 opex: higher TDP manufacturing: China instead of Ta

Do you know if CWWK x86 routers disable Intel BootGuard to allow coreboot? They have: capex: ~3X APU2 opex: higher TDP manufacturing: China instead of Taiwan PCB design: China instead of EU

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
No, I don't. But there is https://github.com/StarLabsLtd/coreboot/blob/24.12/Documentation/mainboard/topton/adl/x2f-n100.md https://github.com/StarLabsLtd/coreboot/blob/24.12/Documenta... which is basically the same shit with a different label. So it should be possible. CAPEX? Dunno what you are comparing these against? While I've never had an APU2, I considered them a looong time ago, with 4GB RAM, and 4 NICs (or 3x & 1 SFP+) and just thought are you drunk/on crack/crazy/stupid because of the price at the times. Which may have been because of greedy distributors/resellers in niche markets. Completing them with cases, PSUs, and the rest of all the little things which go into them. Those Changwan/CWWK/Topton/Whatever/lookalikes go for 200 to 300 Universal Credit Units with 32GB RAM, Case, PSU depending on where, when, and how you get them. Aliexpress sales/coupons, or directly sourced from CWWK. OPEX: Depends very much on the phase of the moon during design&assembly, the quality of their BIOS (Broken Initial Operations Setup), the later mitigations of those by correctly configured most minimal Linux/xBSD, if SFP+ 'optics' are used or not(adds 2 to 2.5Watt per port), borked kernelversions, 'smart' dynamic powermanagment not interfering with usage, multiplied by micromanagement of drivers, and so much more... … (Speaking of N100 here, without coreboot or similar OFC) Manufacturing: Why should I care? PCB design: See above. Also economies of scale, mass production vs.'artisanal snowflake'. Some more bait for you, since you're obviously interested, and I feel like it :-) https://www.servethehome.com/tag/cwwk/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/cwwk/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/topton/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/topton/ https://www.servethehome.com/intel-core-i3-n305-and-n100-2-port-10g-2-port-2-5gbe-appliance/ https://www.servethehome.com/intel-core-i3-n305-and-n100-2-p... https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topton-nxxx-quad-nic-router.39685/ https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topto... (have fun ingesting 138 pages with comments and following up the links therein) Also reddit #Alder Lake #N100 in r/homelab/minilab/MiniPCs/networking/HomeNetworking/HomeServer/SelfHosted/PFSENSE/whateverelse* Edit: Also, because I felt like it: https://yanling-store.en.made-in-china.com/product/zXPETvVubORe/China-Yanling-New-Fanless-Computer-Nano-N18-Intel-Core-I5-8250u-Support-6-Gigabit-LAN-2-DDR4-Mini-PC-for-Linux.html https://yanling-store.en.made-in-china.com/product/zXPETvVub... ( https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101257843 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101257843 ) ( https://www.ylipc.com/ https://www.ylipc.com/ ) vs. https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw6d/ https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw6d/ Scroll down -> Specifications -> Bios: BIOS AMI® or coreboot Yawn... … Where was I... …? Never mind... … ( https://www.iwillminipc.com https://www.iwillminipc.com https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.the-new-header_fy23_pc_search_bar.keydown__Enter&tab=all&SearchText=Alder+Lake+N100 https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?spm=a2700.galleryofferl... https://liliputing.com/this-small-fanless-pc-is-built-for-networking-with-four-10-gbe-and-five-2-5-gb-ethernet-ports/ https://liliputing.com/this-small-fanless-pc-is-built-for-ne... https://www.qotom.net/product/RouterPC_Q20331G9S10.html https://www.qotom.net/product/RouterPC_Q20331G9S10.html Get the gist? ... … (to be continued by some other nerdsniped entity) )
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
  https://www.servethehome.com/the-everything-fanless-home-server-firewall-router-and-nas-appliance-qotom-qnap-teamgroup/ https://www.servethehome.com/the-everything-fanless-home-ser... https://www.servethehome.com/tag/qotom/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/qotom/ https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/qotom-denverton-fanless-system-with-4-sfp.41331/ https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/qotom-denv...
  - transpute 2y ago
    Thanks for the Qotom Q20332G9-S10 pointer, a buffet of network and storage paths. Lots of innovative mini PCs out there, but it's hard to match all the APU2 checkboxes and price. Intel finally relented a little on ECC segmentation to Xeon, with N97 [1] and i3-N305 CPUs having an in-band ECC controller. In theory, a NAS like [2] could use Ryzen Embedded V2000/V3000 with ECC, and a discrete TPM for measured OS boot with owner-defined keys. As an existence proof of what's possible in quality compact hardware, SolidRun has a Ryzen Embedded fanless line [3] for industrial customers. As motherboards condense into a collection of SoC chiplets, edge hardware should continue shrinking. On practical note with current hardware, a used Lenovo Tiny with Intel vPro and low-profile PCIe slot can have a quad NIC for routing, with Thunderbolt/USB4 to external storage for NAS usage. That includes TPM and DRTM, but still lacks ECC. [1] ODROID H4, https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/05/26/odroid-h4-plus-review-intel-n97-nas-kit-fanless-sbc-ubuntu-24-04/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/05/26/odroid-h4-plus-revie... [2] https://aoostar.com/products/aoostar-r7-2-bay-40t-nas-storage-amd-ryzen-7-5825u-mini-pc8c-16t-up-to-4-5ghz-with-w11-pro-ddr4-ram-2-m-2-nvme-%E5%A4%8D%E5%88%B6?variant=49012947910954 https://aoostar.com/products/aoostar-r7-2-bay-40t-nas-storag... [3] SolidRun Ryzen, https://liliputing.com/solidrun-bedrock-r7000-is-small-fanless-computer-with-up-to-ryzen-7-7840hs/ https://liliputing.com/solidrun-bedrock-r7000-is-small-fanle...
    - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
      I'm ambivalent about the necessity of ECC in practice. Especially since the internal pathways in CPUs already have it, and with DDR5 the DIMMs also have it, at least internally. So that only leaves the path between RAM and CPU unprotected. It would be nice to have, but maybe only to be able to feel good about it. Depending on airflow, temperatures, quality of the contacts/slots/soldering, board layout, quality and (more and more so with ever larger units on smaller process nodes) amount of RAM raising the probability of errors. Regarding Lenovos tinies, I have several (dozen) M910q t(inies) with either core i5-7500t or core i7-7700t with 32GB (non-ECC)in use across my two homes, and am very pleased with them. They run everything I've thrown at them without any errors. Giving the most clean kernel-bootlogs ever! Cool&silent but still fast. Even most exotic stuff like Genode. Really flawlessly working S3 (suspend to RAM) every time without exception, btw. Can't tell for contemporary Windows, though, but don't care because no need. Somthing like coreboot with the quality, correctness and functionality of their UEFI on cheap CWWK-like stuff would be a dream come true ;-)

Do you know if CWWK x86 routers disable Intel BootGuard to allow coreboot? They have: capex: ~3X APU2 opex: higher TDP manufacturing: China instead of Taiwan PCB design: China instead of EU

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago

No, I don't. But there is https://github.com/StarLabsLtd/coreboot/blob/24.12/Documentation/mainboard/topton/adl/x2f-n100.md https://github.com/StarLabsLtd/coreboot/blob/24.12/Documenta... which is basically the same shit with a different label. So it should be possible. CAPEX? Dunno what you are comparing these against? While I've never had an APU2, I considered them a looong time ago, with 4GB RAM, and 4 NICs (or 3x & 1 SFP+) and just thought are you drunk/on crack/crazy/stupid because of the price at the times. Which may have been because of greedy distributors/resellers in niche markets. Completing them with cases, PSUs, and the rest of all the little things which go into them. Those Changwan/CWWK/Topton/Whatever/lookalikes go for 200 to 300 Universal Credit Units with 32GB RAM, Case, PSU depending on where, when, and how you get them. Aliexpress sales/coupons, or directly sourced from CWWK. OPEX: Depends very much on the phase of the moon during design&assembly, the quality of their BIOS (Broken Initial Operations Setup), the later mitigations of those by correctly configured most minimal Linux/xBSD, if SFP+ 'optics' are used or not(adds 2 to 2.5Watt per port), borked kernelversions, 'smart' dynamic powermanagment not interfering with usage, multiplied by micromanagement of drivers, and so much more... … (Speaking of N100 here, without coreboot or similar OFC) Manufacturing: Why should I care? PCB design: See above. Also economies of scale, mass production vs.'artisanal snowflake'. Some more bait for you, since you're obviously interested, and I feel like it :-) https://www.servethehome.com/tag/cwwk/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/cwwk/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/topton/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/topton/ https://www.servethehome.com/intel-core-i3-n305-and-n100-2-port-10g-2-port-2-5gbe-appliance/ https://www.servethehome.com/intel-core-i3-n305-and-n100-2-p... https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topton-nxxx-quad-nic-router.39685/ https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topto... (have fun ingesting 138 pages with comments and following up the links therein) Also reddit #Alder Lake #N100 in r/homelab/minilab/MiniPCs/networking/HomeNetworking/HomeServer/SelfHosted/PFSENSE/whateverelse* Edit: Also, because I felt like it: https://yanling-store.en.made-in-china.com/product/zXPETvVubORe/China-Yanling-New-Fanless-Computer-Nano-N18-Intel-Core-I5-8250u-Support-6-Gigabit-LAN-2-DDR4-Mini-PC-for-Linux.html https://yanling-store.en.made-in-china.com/product/zXPETvVub... ( https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101257843 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101257843 ) ( https://www.ylipc.com/ https://www.ylipc.com/ ) vs. https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw6d/ https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw6d/ Scroll down -> Specifications -> Bios: BIOS AMI® or coreboot Yawn... … Where was I... …? Never mind... … ( https://www.iwillminipc.com https://www.iwillminipc.com https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.the-new-header_fy23_pc_search_bar.keydown__Enter&tab=all&SearchText=Alder+Lake+N100 https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?spm=a2700.galleryofferl... https://liliputing.com/this-small-fanless-pc-is-built-for-networking-with-four-10-gbe-and-five-2-5-gb-ethernet-ports/ https://liliputing.com/this-small-fanless-pc-is-built-for-ne... https://www.qotom.net/product/RouterPC_Q20331G9S10.html https://www.qotom.net/product/RouterPC_Q20331G9S10.html Get the gist? ... … (to be continued by some other nerdsniped entity) )

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
https://www.servethehome.com/the-everything-fanless-home-server-firewall-router-and-nas-appliance-qotom-qnap-teamgroup/ https://www.servethehome.com/the-everything-fanless-home-ser... https://www.servethehome.com/tag/qotom/ https://www.servethehome.com/tag/qotom/ https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/qotom-denverton-fanless-system-with-4-sfp.41331/ https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/qotom-denv...
- transpute 2y ago
  Thanks for the Qotom Q20332G9-S10 pointer, a buffet of network and storage paths. Lots of innovative mini PCs out there, but it's hard to match all the APU2 checkboxes and price. Intel finally relented a little on ECC segmentation to Xeon, with N97 [1] and i3-N305 CPUs having an in-band ECC controller. In theory, a NAS like [2] could use Ryzen Embedded V2000/V3000 with ECC, and a discrete TPM for measured OS boot with owner-defined keys. As an existence proof of what's possible in quality compact hardware, SolidRun has a Ryzen Embedded fanless line [3] for industrial customers. As motherboards condense into a collection of SoC chiplets, edge hardware should continue shrinking. On practical note with current hardware, a used Lenovo Tiny with Intel vPro and low-profile PCIe slot can have a quad NIC for routing, with Thunderbolt/USB4 to external storage for NAS usage. That includes TPM and DRTM, but still lacks ECC. [1] ODROID H4, https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/05/26/odroid-h4-plus-review-intel-n97-nas-kit-fanless-sbc-ubuntu-24-04/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/05/26/odroid-h4-plus-revie... [2] https://aoostar.com/products/aoostar-r7-2-bay-40t-nas-storage-amd-ryzen-7-5825u-mini-pc8c-16t-up-to-4-5ghz-with-w11-pro-ddr4-ram-2-m-2-nvme-%E5%A4%8D%E5%88%B6?variant=49012947910954 https://aoostar.com/products/aoostar-r7-2-bay-40t-nas-storag... [3] SolidRun Ryzen, https://liliputing.com/solidrun-bedrock-r7000-is-small-fanless-computer-with-up-to-ryzen-7-7840hs/ https://liliputing.com/solidrun-bedrock-r7000-is-small-fanle...
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    I'm ambivalent about the necessity of ECC in practice. Especially since the internal pathways in CPUs already have it, and with DDR5 the DIMMs also have it, at least internally. So that only leaves the path between RAM and CPU unprotected. It would be nice to have, but maybe only to be able to feel good about it. Depending on airflow, temperatures, quality of the contacts/slots/soldering, board layout, quality and (more and more so with ever larger units on smaller process nodes) amount of RAM raising the probability of errors. Regarding Lenovos tinies, I have several (dozen) M910q t(inies) with either core i5-7500t or core i7-7700t with 32GB (non-ECC)in use across my two homes, and am very pleased with them. They run everything I've thrown at them without any errors. Giving the most clean kernel-bootlogs ever! Cool&silent but still fast. Even most exotic stuff like Genode. Really flawlessly working S3 (suspend to RAM) every time without exception, btw. Can't tell for contemporary Windows, though, but don't care because no need. Somthing like coreboot with the quality, correctness and functionality of their UEFI on cheap CWWK-like stuff would be a dream come true ;-)