10 ms·

Living in Poland ruled by trumpists for 8 years I have these experiences: - Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so

by majgr 2y ago

Living in Poland ruled by trumpists for 8 years I have these experiences: - Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. - It is better to not use social media. You never know if you are discussing with normal person, a political party troll, or Russian troll. - It is not worth discussing with „switched-on” people. They are getting high doses of emotional content, they are made to feel like victims, facts does not matter at all. Political beliefs are intermingled with religious beliefs. - emotional content is being treated with higher priority by brain, so it is better to stay away from it, or it will ruin your evening. - people are getting addicted to emotions and victimization, so after public broadcaster has been freed from it, around 5% people switched to private tv station to get their daily doses. - social media feels like a new kind of virus, we all need to get sick and develop some immunity to it. - in the end, there are more reasonable people, but democracies needs to develop better constitutional/law systems, with very short feedback loop. It is very important to have fast reaction on breaking the law by ruling regime.

CrimsonRain 2y ago
Are you sure these high value professionals are fair? I saw this story the other day; don't have much idea about Poland. So verify yourself. https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/02/03/polish-billionaire-offers-to-help-left-wing-magazine-after-trump-cuts-funding/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/02/03/polish-billionaire-of...
- purplezooey 2y ago
  Digging up a tiny, poorly funded left-wing publication as a whipping post doesn't support the point you are making.
  - CrimsonRain 2y ago
    Hmm. You're in bargaining stage or what? fwiw, read/listen/watch actual events instead of some "professional's opinion". Then make up your own mind.
- notTooFarGone 2y ago
  but what about THIS anecdote????!
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  You know what you can do? Subscribe to multiple papers, from both sides. Then you can do some comparison to see when things are reported differently. When I grew up we had at least two papers, sometimes three. One was leaning left, other leaning right. These days it's what Ground News[1] is trying to do from what I can gather, though haven't tried them as they don't cover the news in my country. [1]: https://ground.news/ https://ground.news/
  - magnetometer 2y ago
    Why should there be only two sides?
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      You can consider as many dimensions as you want. As I mentioned, for some time we had three papers regularly delivered, for additional perspective. However typically, a single dimension is a useful first-order approximation[1], and so that's what's done in politics as well. As with all approximations, sometimes it works well and other times it does not. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_approximation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_approximation
    - timeon 2y ago
      That was probably mentioned from US-centric point of view where they have two-party system.
      - magicalhippo 2y ago
        I'm from Norway where we have currently ten parties in our parliament[1]. We still mostly talk about them as distributed along a left to right axis. Though as I mentioned it's not a perfect approximation. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storting
        timeon 2y ago
        Seems like Norway has also many constituencies which can favor dominant parties. However unlike US you have also leveling seats which balances it a bit.
- majgr 2y ago
  I think it is fair, because professionals do not use cheap tricks, but at least they are trying to distance themselves when writing a report. I like discussions when Sławomir Sierakowski (from Krytyka Polityczna) is present, because he always have some new ideas, new ways to describe reality. Although, I do not follow Krytyka Polityczna.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    When someone is hired into a professional job, is there something in the laws of physics that prevent them from doing wrong?
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      What is the job anyway? Almost all of the publishing is ultimately funded by ads, therefore the primary job of everyone involved is to generate ad impressions. What's being attributed to "professionals" in this thread is actually the opposite of what the job pays for.
      - mistermann 2y ago
        It is very funny how humans experience reality eh? Like, the literal assignment of a word to something can cause the representation of it in a person's mind (aka the reality) to change. Also weird: it is essentially not possible to talk about the phenomenon in a serious way (participants range of possible actions become highly constrained, and therefore highly predictable). I really wonder if this normative phenomenon will be able to survive in the age of AI.
    - majgr 2y ago
      > When someone is hired into a professional job, is there something in the laws of physics that prevent them from doing wrong? No, but work of journalists is highly visible. Probably, this creates more incentive to write according to rules of the trade. There are examples of journalists who went with ruling regime and got monetary prizes. Some are switching to it now, betting that regime change again and their dedication will bring rewards.
mib32 2y ago
I’m getting outrage just by reading this comment. edit: it makes me curious about how that works!
vaccineai 2y ago
[flagged]
- bbzealot 2y ago
  Account created two weeks ago, posting pretty much only right-wing propaganda comments. A bit suspicious...
- simianparrot 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - padolsey 2y ago
    OOC What are examples of things the US is doing right now that you'd like Norway/EU to pursue? Like, specifically?
    - simianparrot 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - SiempreViernes 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - simianparrot 2y ago
      [flagged]
0xEF 2y ago
You nailed it. For ages, we've known that we can be hacked by anything that solicits an emotional response from us. People who set their sights on abusing that power have only gotten better at doing it, so much so that often the victim of the manipulation has no idea they've been manipulated. There is still an alarming number of people out there who do not seem aware that this is even possible, let alone actively being done on almost all media fronts. I think acknowledging this makes my outrage fatigue worse, because I am also forced to admit that it can (and does) happen to me, despite being aware of it. This renders me automatically suspicious of any news being reported from any source, regardless of liberal or conservative bias. So, on top of being outraged, there's layers of paranoia which is tiring in and of itself, especially now that it seems more justified.
- prox 2y ago
  That’s also an alarm bell right there. If the answer to the question “Does this article/headline want me to feel anything?” is Yes, than it’s emotional bait. If its “boring” than it’s probably more neutral. Emotional reactivity is the psychological name I believe. High reactivity means more anxiety, stress and sometimes sign of a disorder.
  - pooper 2y ago
    Here is one example of what I think is boring. Is this what you had in mind? ---- Bank of England Cuts Interest Rates as British Economy Weakens The central bank cut rates for the third time in about six months as it said growth had been weaker than expected.
    - lazide 2y ago
      If it bleeds it leads has been a core tenet of journalism essentially since it has existed. And certainly a staple of rumor mills since long before that.
    - culi 2y ago
      Good counterexample. Clear bias while still being boring
myrmidon 2y ago
Out of curiosity-- does "trumpists" mean PiS? Are the "trumpists" still in power? What is the current trend (toward trumpists or away?). > Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. This is excellent advise. I'm worrying that post-paper news have a really strong incentive nowadays to drive outrage, and that the current level of reporting we see online is the new normal.
- Tade0 2y ago
  They've lost majority in the 2023 elections. The current president (serving his second term) is a big fan of Trump though.
  - _7acn 2y ago
    Dudu
  - torlok 2y ago
    And their next candidate acts like a stereotypical Bible-waving Joe Rogan fan.
  - garaetjjte 2y ago
    And current government is running to the right, which IMO is terribly short-sighted strategy.
lazide 2y ago
The constitution (any constitution) and laws are just words on paper. They only matter when the people in the system make it matter. And larger society is part of that system. Having a system which incentivizes people to not allow this to happen certainly helps - but corruption is inevitable and requires constant work to correct.
_7acn 2y ago
What do you mean by “trumpists” precisely? In Poland, two centrist parties take turns in power. One uses more conservative and pro-American rhetoric, while the other is more liberal and pro-European. However, if you focus on what these parties actually do, there is no fundamental difference between them. Both raise taxes, expand bureaucracy, and limit freedom. And neither of them represents Polish interests. And yet, people supporting one or the other party are furious at each other. It’s like a battle between warring tribes.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  How do they limit freedom and what kind? Is it like blocking websites and police searches or like "you can't drink booze outside"?
  - _7acn 2y ago
    I'm referring to actions that can be observed in the vast majority of countries. There are two main cases here, which, surprisingly, are rarely discussed in the media. The first case is when the state openly violates certain rights concerning individuals or groups, often under some pretext. An example could be a situation where you run an independent political website, and suddenly, it gets taken down by your ISP because they have received an ORDER from the intelligence agency, claiming that what you write is dangerous propaganda. Meanwhile, your constitution guarantees you freedom of speech. Another example might be someone being imprisoned for several months without a verdict or a concrete charge. Simply because they have fallen out of favour with the wrong people and are punished for it. I know this may sound like something that only happens in a 3rd-world country, but it is occurring in nearly all Western nations - it's just that the media choose not to report on it. The second case is when a law is introduced, usually under a very appealing name - something like "The Environmental Protection Act". After all, who wouldn't want to protect the environment? Then, you suddenly discover that you are not allowed to build a private hydroelectric power plant on your own land because it is deemed illegal. This is happening in almost every country. When was the last time you heard about a law that removed restrictions? One that expanded civil liberties? Probably a long time ago. And yet, new laws are constantly being introduced.
madeofpalk 2y ago
> - It is better to not use social media. You never know if you are discussing with normal person, a political party troll, or Russian troll. Completely valid, but there is a middleground of very deliberately curating your social media: - Avoid using services that are engineered for outrage and views - be ruthless with who you follow and block (someone trying to drum up some unimportant javascript outrage? get them off your feed) - for twitter-likes, mute phrases from your timeline like crazy (included in my muted words is plainly trump, kamala, elon, gop, democrats, doge, dei, covid, etc) - always be skeptical that everyone else online is some PSYOP effort, even those that share views you politically align with It is possible to use social media, but you must have agency over it and not allow it to just happen to you. That's why I'm much more enthusastic about decentralised/open and non-commercial social networks because they currently give users much more control.
- ovalanche 2y ago
  Can you give some examples of decentralized/open and non-commercial networks? I would be very interested to use such platforms but I don’t know of them (nor do the people in my life, unfortunately)! In agreement with all your points above.
  - tuukkah 2y ago
    Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/ https://mastodon.social/
- dieselgate 2y ago
  Good points about how to better use social media but I don’t personally think the benefits outweigh the downsides
- skeeter2020 2y ago
  Don't disagree with you, but I'll counter with 2 big issues: 1. the services themselves continually change, and are incentivized to get much more manipulative, and much, much worse. I used to use LinkedIn as an employment network, and now it's a full-on social media hub (though weirdly positive in a very phony way...) even HN has changed for the worse (despite the efforts of dang) 2. won't someone think of the kids? in seriousness though, they're struggling to build agency over themselves; how can they be expected to control social media, and to pile on, it's the only world they've ever known?
user3939382 2y ago
> Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. All printed papers in the US that I’m aware of serve corporate political interests so I lost you there. Then you have magazines that are aligned with various think tanks and lobbyists. The truth isn’t somewhere in the middle of all this, it’s with totally independent journalists on new media like Rumble.
- Craighead 2y ago
  [dead]
- tuukkah 2y ago
  It doesn't have to be printed in the US. The Guardian is backed by a non-profit and there's a US (digital) edition plus a printed weekly international edition.
  - wonderwonder 2y ago
    The guardian openly states on their website that they are anti-trump. So going to posit they may be less that neutral. From the banner on their home page: "From Elon Musk to the Murdochs, billionaire owners control much of the information that reaches the public. Meanwhile, increasing numbers of bad actors are spreading disinformation that threatens democracy" also "After Trump remarked that “in this term, everybody wants to be my friend,” The Guardian blasted out a defiant fundraising email stating, “Trump, we don’t want to be your friend” and urging readers to contribute a year-end gift."
    - tuukkah 2y ago
      If you read carefully, that's not anti-Trump, that's nuanced. A newspaper isn't supposed to be friends with politicians - it's supposed to report on them critically and truthfully.
      - wonderwonder 2y ago
exceptione 2y ago
[flagged]
wonderwonder 2y ago
"It is not worth discussing with „switched-on” people. They are getting high doses of emotional content, they are made to feel like victims, facts does not matter at all. Political beliefs are intermingled with religious beliefs." This is fascinating to watch in the current environment. People are decent in real life for the most part but on social media its as if all manner of restraint are removed. Post anything disagreeing with the overall narrative of the site and its like a scene out of World War Z. Just attacked by crowds of people actively calling for your death. Never seen anything like it. On X they will insult your intelligence or pull the "we tried to tell you and this is what you get you [insert explicative here]. On Reddit they will quite openly hope someone murders you. Social media has truly insidious powers and I don't think people realize they are under its spell until its too late.
- pjc50 2y ago
  > Social media has truly insidious powers and I don't think people realize they are under its spell until its too late. Which is why there's now the disastrous government-by-meme plan directed at fighting the people a social media site's owner spends his time fighting with on social media. Plus a few crank theories of his own.
- skeeter2020 2y ago
  you don't even need to compare the same IRL people with social media. Tuck them behind a car windshield/windscreen and any social relationship is dead. Sincerely, A bike rider who commutes in traffic with the same people he works with every day.
- nervousvarun 2y ago
  FAAFO is a real thing that influences human behavior. We learn it as kids on the playground. There is almost zero FAAFO with discussions on the internet. And each passing year, there is less playground.
clydethefrog 2y ago
Good list, especially the last one. See also social acceleration [1], from German sociologist and political scientist Hartmut Rosa. Rosa argues that this current culture leads to a crisis in democratic self-determination, as the current quick demands of modern society often conflict with the slower, more reflective processes that democracy requires. The pressure to respond quickly can make democratic governance appear dysfunctional, as governments find it increasingly difficult to react to the complex issues of today within tight time constraints. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_acceleration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_acceleration
koolba 2y ago
> in the end, there are more reasonable people, but democracies needs to develop better constitutional/law systems, with very short feedback loop. It is very important to have fast reaction on breaking the law by ruling regime. What’s wrong with the separation of powers in the USA? There’s plenty of situations where judges issue injunctions that are in effect until the case is resolved.
- btreecat 2y ago
  Lack of enforcement mechanisms, captured courts, feckless political stooges, gullible public. E.g. Virginia governor illegally purged voters within a certain time window. Courts said "yeah that was illegal, you need to stop" VA attorney gen said "no I don't." And while the court of appeals agreed with the lower court "yeah simple violation of the law. Reinstate revoked registration." The VA supreme court was like "nah fam, let's let the governor do his thing and we can figure this all out after the election." And everyone kinda stopped talking about it. As a poll worker I had multiple people who had voter ID cards come in last November but required filling out paperwork to re-register them and have them cast a provisional ballot. Feels like they were connected as I hadn't dealt with that in the near dozen elections I've worked prior.
  - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
    I live in VA, and forgot about this until you mentioned it. Ugh. Also wanted to say thank you for your work as a poll worker.
    - btreecat 2y ago
      At least in my area of VA, the elections board does a great job supporting it's poll-workers. If you have the capacity (I understand it's not compatible with everyone's schedule or capacity) I would recommend looking into it in your area as they usually need help, and it is a paid gig. It's easy to sign up the next time you go to vote, just ask the poll workers for the signup sheet. I try to make it fun and make food for my precinct. Usually some bbq fresh bread and some sides, then feed any of the county voting board members who check in on us as well. Good luck out there!
wvh 2y ago
I'm going to commit a netiquette faux-pas and, as a fellow European, simply wholeheartedly acknowledge all you just said, from politics to media to psychology and neurology. I don't know if the internet is just mirroring the general state of society, or if it contributes negatively to it, but talking specifically about the net, this dystopia really isn't what I had envisioned in the '90s. Even rats in cages being subjected to psychological torture are better behaved than this.
graemep 2y ago
I would add consume less news in general. It has the same problems as social media, just less acute. Its better to spend that time reading more in-depth things such as books.
lostmsu 2y ago
This is too complicated. There's a much shorter working plan: - fact check exceptional claims - report factual failures to the source - if the source doesn't apologize publicly in the same channel, permanently remove it from trusted sources edit: ok, after the rage comment I realized that one more item is missing: discarding sources with systematic reporting bias (when it is obvious they aren't reporting things that you care about that are happening)
- mistermann 2y ago
  Rare is the individual who does not make numerous errors while engaging in fact checking, in no small part because of our cultural norms of cognition.
- myrmidon 2y ago
  Factual correctness is a different dimension from how "outrage-inducing" news are. Those are orthogonal. Consider: "Illegal immigrants strike again, having raped 2 teenagers already this year" is outrage-inducing regardless of factual correctness.
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    What exactly is the problem with inducing outrage?
    - myrmidon 2y ago
      "Outrage fatigue can wear us down"-- the subtitle of the article :P
      - lostmsu 2y ago
        I don't necessarily see a problem with "outrage fatigue". It sounds like a self-solving problem: if a source gives you such fatigue, you will stop reading it naturally.
        2y ago
delfinom 2y ago
Sadly I don't know if a high value newspaper exists anymore. Wapo and NYtimes have slowly evolved into elitists papers. That over focus on some issues and completely ignore others.
Bhilai 2y ago
> Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. I struggle with this. It's incredibly challenging to find reliable, unbiased news sources these days, especially with the perceived slant of many major outlets. It's discouraging when even subscriptions to reputable publications like the NYT and WSJ leave you feeling like you're not getting the full story. It's also concerning when editorial content undermines the perceived objectivity of the news reporting, specially with WSJ. So what are people reading?
- otterley 2y ago
  I don't think there's a single source of news that is going to satisfy a need for full context. I read both for balance, and add The Economist to the mix for even more context.
- jajko 2y ago
  Don't have a specific advise, but generally I don't consume nor trust news articles about given country, from given country. So I read about my central European homeland from neighboring news, or BBC/Guardian for example. Its more difficult with US since every fart affects rest of the world, sometimes massively, but some sort of averaging in my mind does it for me. Or at least I think it does, what is truly objective is a goal worthy of maybe academic discussions, I don't think individual can easily even get to it and realize 'this is it'.
  - danans 2y ago
    > Its more difficult with US since every fart affects rest of the world, sometimes massively The Guardian (UK), Al-Jazeera (UAE), and the Straits Times (Singapore) offer an outside perspective on the US, while still in English.
  - LeroyRaz 2y ago
    I wouldn't trust the guardian. Their misrepsetation of Depp v. Heard was appalling and revealed that they have extreme ideological biases.
jrm4 2y ago
> Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. But, definitely understand what you are getting into here: Paraphrasing Nassim Nicholas Taleb, who notes that if you'd like to be cured of reading newspapers, read last years' newspapers. I think they're good for understanding "what people are talking about these days" as well as any statements that are literal facts, but anything in-between will be pretty fraught with the same issues as e.g. social media.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
m_fayer 2y ago
This is a wonderful list and I’m going to hold onto it, thank you. I love the concept of a “switched on” person and I’ve been struggling to define and name this myself. They’re all across the political spectrum and often outside its binaries, but they all bring an agitated personalized combativeness to the slightest of provocations. They’re deeply enmeshed in, whatever it is. I’m starting to see them as, almost, mentally ill. But I’m still developing my understanding and approach here. So thanks for the food for thought.

by majgr 2y ago

CrimsonRain 2y ago

Are you sure these high value professionals are fair? I saw this story the other day; don't have much idea about Poland. So verify yourself. https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/02/03/polish-billionaire-offers-to-help-left-wing-magazine-after-trump-cuts-funding/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/02/03/polish-billionaire-of...

purplezooey 2y ago
Digging up a tiny, poorly funded left-wing publication as a whipping post doesn't support the point you are making.
- CrimsonRain 2y ago
  Hmm. You're in bargaining stage or what? fwiw, read/listen/watch actual events instead of some "professional's opinion". Then make up your own mind.
notTooFarGone 2y ago
but what about THIS anecdote????!
magicalhippo 2y ago
You know what you can do? Subscribe to multiple papers, from both sides. Then you can do some comparison to see when things are reported differently. When I grew up we had at least two papers, sometimes three. One was leaning left, other leaning right. These days it's what Ground News[1] is trying to do from what I can gather, though haven't tried them as they don't cover the news in my country. [1]: https://ground.news/ https://ground.news/
- magnetometer 2y ago
  Why should there be only two sides?
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    You can consider as many dimensions as you want. As I mentioned, for some time we had three papers regularly delivered, for additional perspective. However typically, a single dimension is a useful first-order approximation[1], and so that's what's done in politics as well. As with all approximations, sometimes it works well and other times it does not. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_approximation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_approximation
  - timeon 2y ago
    That was probably mentioned from US-centric point of view where they have two-party system.
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      I'm from Norway where we have currently ten parties in our parliament[1]. We still mostly talk about them as distributed along a left to right axis. Though as I mentioned it's not a perfect approximation. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storting
      - timeon 2y ago
        Seems like Norway has also many constituencies which can favor dominant parties. However unlike US you have also leveling seats which balances it a bit.
majgr 2y ago
I think it is fair, because professionals do not use cheap tricks, but at least they are trying to distance themselves when writing a report. I like discussions when Sławomir Sierakowski (from Krytyka Polityczna) is present, because he always have some new ideas, new ways to describe reality. Although, I do not follow Krytyka Polityczna.
- mistermann 2y ago
  When someone is hired into a professional job, is there something in the laws of physics that prevent them from doing wrong?
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    What is the job anyway? Almost all of the publishing is ultimately funded by ads, therefore the primary job of everyone involved is to generate ad impressions. What's being attributed to "professionals" in this thread is actually the opposite of what the job pays for.
    - mistermann 2y ago
      It is very funny how humans experience reality eh? Like, the literal assignment of a word to something can cause the representation of it in a person's mind (aka the reality) to change. Also weird: it is essentially not possible to talk about the phenomenon in a serious way (participants range of possible actions become highly constrained, and therefore highly predictable). I really wonder if this normative phenomenon will be able to survive in the age of AI.
  - majgr 2y ago
    > When someone is hired into a professional job, is there something in the laws of physics that prevent them from doing wrong? No, but work of journalists is highly visible. Probably, this creates more incentive to write according to rules of the trade. There are examples of journalists who went with ruling regime and got monetary prizes. Some are switching to it now, betting that regime change again and their dedication will bring rewards.

mib32 2y ago

I’m getting outrage just by reading this comment. edit: it makes me curious about how that works!

vaccineai 2y ago

[flagged]

bbzealot 2y ago
Account created two weeks ago, posting pretty much only right-wing propaganda comments. A bit suspicious...
simianparrot 2y ago
[flagged]
- padolsey 2y ago
  OOC What are examples of things the US is doing right now that you'd like Norway/EU to pursue? Like, specifically?
  - simianparrot 2y ago
    [flagged]
- SiempreViernes 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - simianparrot 2y ago
    [flagged]

0xEF 2y ago

You nailed it. For ages, we've known that we can be hacked by anything that solicits an emotional response from us. People who set their sights on abusing that power have only gotten better at doing it, so much so that often the victim of the manipulation has no idea they've been manipulated. There is still an alarming number of people out there who do not seem aware that this is even possible, let alone actively being done on almost all media fronts. I think acknowledging this makes my outrage fatigue worse, because I am also forced to admit that it can (and does) happen to me, despite being aware of it. This renders me automatically suspicious of any news being reported from any source, regardless of liberal or conservative bias. So, on top of being outraged, there's layers of paranoia which is tiring in and of itself, especially now that it seems more justified.

prox 2y ago
That’s also an alarm bell right there. If the answer to the question “Does this article/headline want me to feel anything?” is Yes, than it’s emotional bait. If its “boring” than it’s probably more neutral. Emotional reactivity is the psychological name I believe. High reactivity means more anxiety, stress and sometimes sign of a disorder.
- pooper 2y ago
  Here is one example of what I think is boring. Is this what you had in mind? ---- Bank of England Cuts Interest Rates as British Economy Weakens The central bank cut rates for the third time in about six months as it said growth had been weaker than expected.
  - lazide 2y ago
    If it bleeds it leads has been a core tenet of journalism essentially since it has existed. And certainly a staple of rumor mills since long before that.
  - culi 2y ago
    Good counterexample. Clear bias while still being boring

myrmidon 2y ago

Out of curiosity-- does "trumpists" mean PiS? Are the "trumpists" still in power? What is the current trend (toward trumpists or away?). > Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. This is excellent advise. I'm worrying that post-paper news have a really strong incentive nowadays to drive outrage, and that the current level of reporting we see online is the new normal.

Tade0 2y ago
They've lost majority in the 2023 elections. The current president (serving his second term) is a big fan of Trump though.
- _7acn 2y ago
  Dudu
- torlok 2y ago
  And their next candidate acts like a stereotypical Bible-waving Joe Rogan fan.
- garaetjjte 2y ago
  And current government is running to the right, which IMO is terribly short-sighted strategy.

lazide 2y ago

The constitution (any constitution) and laws are just words on paper. They only matter when the people in the system make it matter. And larger society is part of that system. Having a system which incentivizes people to not allow this to happen certainly helps - but corruption is inevitable and requires constant work to correct.

_7acn 2y ago

What do you mean by “trumpists” precisely? In Poland, two centrist parties take turns in power. One uses more conservative and pro-American rhetoric, while the other is more liberal and pro-European. However, if you focus on what these parties actually do, there is no fundamental difference between them. Both raise taxes, expand bureaucracy, and limit freedom. And neither of them represents Polish interests. And yet, people supporting one or the other party are furious at each other. It’s like a battle between warring tribes.

throwaway290 2y ago
How do they limit freedom and what kind? Is it like blocking websites and police searches or like "you can't drink booze outside"?
- _7acn 2y ago
  I'm referring to actions that can be observed in the vast majority of countries. There are two main cases here, which, surprisingly, are rarely discussed in the media. The first case is when the state openly violates certain rights concerning individuals or groups, often under some pretext. An example could be a situation where you run an independent political website, and suddenly, it gets taken down by your ISP because they have received an ORDER from the intelligence agency, claiming that what you write is dangerous propaganda. Meanwhile, your constitution guarantees you freedom of speech. Another example might be someone being imprisoned for several months without a verdict or a concrete charge. Simply because they have fallen out of favour with the wrong people and are punished for it. I know this may sound like something that only happens in a 3rd-world country, but it is occurring in nearly all Western nations - it's just that the media choose not to report on it. The second case is when a law is introduced, usually under a very appealing name - something like "The Environmental Protection Act". After all, who wouldn't want to protect the environment? Then, you suddenly discover that you are not allowed to build a private hydroelectric power plant on your own land because it is deemed illegal. This is happening in almost every country. When was the last time you heard about a law that removed restrictions? One that expanded civil liberties? Probably a long time ago. And yet, new laws are constantly being introduced.

madeofpalk 2y ago

> - It is better to not use social media. You never know if you are discussing with normal person, a political party troll, or Russian troll. Completely valid, but there is a middleground of very deliberately curating your social media: - Avoid using services that are engineered for outrage and views - be ruthless with who you follow and block (someone trying to drum up some unimportant javascript outrage? get them off your feed) - for twitter-likes, mute phrases from your timeline like crazy (included in my muted words is plainly trump, kamala, elon, gop, democrats, doge, dei, covid, etc) - always be skeptical that everyone else online is some PSYOP effort, even those that share views you politically align with It is possible to use social media, but you must have agency over it and not allow it to just happen to you. That's why I'm much more enthusastic about decentralised/open and non-commercial social networks because they currently give users much more control.

ovalanche 2y ago
Can you give some examples of decentralized/open and non-commercial networks? I would be very interested to use such platforms but I don’t know of them (nor do the people in my life, unfortunately)! In agreement with all your points above.
- tuukkah 2y ago
  Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/ https://mastodon.social/
dieselgate 2y ago
Good points about how to better use social media but I don’t personally think the benefits outweigh the downsides
skeeter2020 2y ago
Don't disagree with you, but I'll counter with 2 big issues: 1. the services themselves continually change, and are incentivized to get much more manipulative, and much, much worse. I used to use LinkedIn as an employment network, and now it's a full-on social media hub (though weirdly positive in a very phony way...) even HN has changed for the worse (despite the efforts of dang) 2. won't someone think of the kids? in seriousness though, they're struggling to build agency over themselves; how can they be expected to control social media, and to pile on, it's the only world they've ever known?

user3939382 2y ago

> Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. All printed papers in the US that I’m aware of serve corporate political interests so I lost you there. Then you have magazines that are aligned with various think tanks and lobbyists. The truth isn’t somewhere in the middle of all this, it’s with totally independent journalists on new media like Rumble.

Craighead 2y ago
[dead]
tuukkah 2y ago
It doesn't have to be printed in the US. The Guardian is backed by a non-profit and there's a US (digital) edition plus a printed weekly international edition.
- wonderwonder 2y ago
  The guardian openly states on their website that they are anti-trump. So going to posit they may be less that neutral. From the banner on their home page: "From Elon Musk to the Murdochs, billionaire owners control much of the information that reaches the public. Meanwhile, increasing numbers of bad actors are spreading disinformation that threatens democracy" also "After Trump remarked that “in this term, everybody wants to be my friend,” The Guardian blasted out a defiant fundraising email stating, “Trump, we don’t want to be your friend” and urging readers to contribute a year-end gift."
  - tuukkah 2y ago
    If you read carefully, that's not anti-Trump, that's nuanced. A newspaper isn't supposed to be friends with politicians - it's supposed to report on them critically and truthfully.
    - wonderwonder 2y ago

exceptione 2y ago

[flagged]

wonderwonder 2y ago

"It is not worth discussing with „switched-on” people. They are getting high doses of emotional content, they are made to feel like victims, facts does not matter at all. Political beliefs are intermingled with religious beliefs." This is fascinating to watch in the current environment. People are decent in real life for the most part but on social media its as if all manner of restraint are removed. Post anything disagreeing with the overall narrative of the site and its like a scene out of World War Z. Just attacked by crowds of people actively calling for your death. Never seen anything like it. On X they will insult your intelligence or pull the "we tried to tell you and this is what you get you [insert explicative here]. On Reddit they will quite openly hope someone murders you. Social media has truly insidious powers and I don't think people realize they are under its spell until its too late.

pjc50 2y ago
> Social media has truly insidious powers and I don't think people realize they are under its spell until its too late. Which is why there's now the disastrous government-by-meme plan directed at fighting the people a social media site's owner spends his time fighting with on social media. Plus a few crank theories of his own.
skeeter2020 2y ago
you don't even need to compare the same IRL people with social media. Tuck them behind a car windshield/windscreen and any social relationship is dead. Sincerely, A bike rider who commutes in traffic with the same people he works with every day.
nervousvarun 2y ago
FAAFO is a real thing that influences human behavior. We learn it as kids on the playground. There is almost zero FAAFO with discussions on the internet. And each passing year, there is less playground.

clydethefrog 2y ago

Good list, especially the last one. See also social acceleration [1], from German sociologist and political scientist Hartmut Rosa. Rosa argues that this current culture leads to a crisis in democratic self-determination, as the current quick demands of modern society often conflict with the slower, more reflective processes that democracy requires. The pressure to respond quickly can make democratic governance appear dysfunctional, as governments find it increasingly difficult to react to the complex issues of today within tight time constraints. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_acceleration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_acceleration

koolba 2y ago

> in the end, there are more reasonable people, but democracies needs to develop better constitutional/law systems, with very short feedback loop. It is very important to have fast reaction on breaking the law by ruling regime. What’s wrong with the separation of powers in the USA? There’s plenty of situations where judges issue injunctions that are in effect until the case is resolved.

btreecat 2y ago
Lack of enforcement mechanisms, captured courts, feckless political stooges, gullible public. E.g. Virginia governor illegally purged voters within a certain time window. Courts said "yeah that was illegal, you need to stop" VA attorney gen said "no I don't." And while the court of appeals agreed with the lower court "yeah simple violation of the law. Reinstate revoked registration." The VA supreme court was like "nah fam, let's let the governor do his thing and we can figure this all out after the election." And everyone kinda stopped talking about it. As a poll worker I had multiple people who had voter ID cards come in last November but required filling out paperwork to re-register them and have them cast a provisional ballot. Feels like they were connected as I hadn't dealt with that in the near dozen elections I've worked prior.
- mattgreenrocks 2y ago
  I live in VA, and forgot about this until you mentioned it. Ugh. Also wanted to say thank you for your work as a poll worker.
  - btreecat 2y ago
    At least in my area of VA, the elections board does a great job supporting it's poll-workers. If you have the capacity (I understand it's not compatible with everyone's schedule or capacity) I would recommend looking into it in your area as they usually need help, and it is a paid gig. It's easy to sign up the next time you go to vote, just ask the poll workers for the signup sheet. I try to make it fun and make food for my precinct. Usually some bbq fresh bread and some sides, then feed any of the county voting board members who check in on us as well. Good luck out there!

wvh 2y ago

I'm going to commit a netiquette faux-pas and, as a fellow European, simply wholeheartedly acknowledge all you just said, from politics to media to psychology and neurology. I don't know if the internet is just mirroring the general state of society, or if it contributes negatively to it, but talking specifically about the net, this dystopia really isn't what I had envisioned in the '90s. Even rats in cages being subjected to psychological torture are better behaved than this.

graemep 2y ago

I would add consume less news in general. It has the same problems as social media, just less acute. Its better to spend that time reading more in-depth things such as books.

lostmsu 2y ago

This is too complicated. There's a much shorter working plan: - fact check exceptional claims - report factual failures to the source - if the source doesn't apologize publicly in the same channel, permanently remove it from trusted sources edit: ok, after the rage comment I realized that one more item is missing: discarding sources with systematic reporting bias (when it is obvious they aren't reporting things that you care about that are happening)

mistermann 2y ago
Rare is the individual who does not make numerous errors while engaging in fact checking, in no small part because of our cultural norms of cognition.
myrmidon 2y ago
Factual correctness is a different dimension from how "outrage-inducing" news are. Those are orthogonal. Consider: "Illegal immigrants strike again, having raped 2 teenagers already this year" is outrage-inducing regardless of factual correctness.
- lostmsu 2y ago
  What exactly is the problem with inducing outrage?
  - myrmidon 2y ago
    "Outrage fatigue can wear us down"-- the subtitle of the article :P
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      I don't necessarily see a problem with "outrage fatigue". It sounds like a self-solving problem: if a source gives you such fatigue, you will stop reading it naturally.
      - 2y ago

delfinom 2y ago

Sadly I don't know if a high value newspaper exists anymore. Wapo and NYtimes have slowly evolved into elitists papers. That over focus on some issues and completely ignore others.

Bhilai 2y ago

> Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. I struggle with this. It's incredibly challenging to find reliable, unbiased news sources these days, especially with the perceived slant of many major outlets. It's discouraging when even subscriptions to reputable publications like the NYT and WSJ leave you feeling like you're not getting the full story. It's also concerning when editorial content undermines the perceived objectivity of the news reporting, specially with WSJ. So what are people reading?

otterley 2y ago
I don't think there's a single source of news that is going to satisfy a need for full context. I read both for balance, and add The Economist to the mix for even more context.
jajko 2y ago
Don't have a specific advise, but generally I don't consume nor trust news articles about given country, from given country. So I read about my central European homeland from neighboring news, or BBC/Guardian for example. Its more difficult with US since every fart affects rest of the world, sometimes massively, but some sort of averaging in my mind does it for me. Or at least I think it does, what is truly objective is a goal worthy of maybe academic discussions, I don't think individual can easily even get to it and realize 'this is it'.
- danans 2y ago
  > Its more difficult with US since every fart affects rest of the world, sometimes massively The Guardian (UK), Al-Jazeera (UAE), and the Straits Times (Singapore) offer an outside perspective on the US, while still in English.
- LeroyRaz 2y ago
  I wouldn't trust the guardian. Their misrepsetation of Depp v. Heard was appalling and revealed that they have extreme ideological biases.

jrm4 2y ago

> Get subscription of high value newspaper or magazine. Professionals work there, so you will get real facts, worthy opinions and less emotions. But, definitely understand what you are getting into here: Paraphrasing Nassim Nicholas Taleb, who notes that if you'd like to be cured of reading newspapers, read last years' newspapers. I think they're good for understanding "what people are talking about these days" as well as any statements that are literal facts, but anything in-between will be pretty fraught with the same issues as e.g. social media.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

m_fayer 2y ago

This is a wonderful list and I’m going to hold onto it, thank you. I love the concept of a “switched on” person and I’ve been struggling to define and name this myself. They’re all across the political spectrum and often outside its binaries, but they all bring an agitated personalized combativeness to the slightest of provocations. They’re deeply enmeshed in, whatever it is. I’m starting to see them as, almost, mentally ill. But I’m still developing my understanding and approach here. So thanks for the food for thought.