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> Is Google going to avoid interviewing anyone from a HBCU now? Why won't they? It's not like black people can't be hired anymore. It's just they have to comp

> Is Google going to avoid interviewing anyone from a HBCU now? Why won't they? It's not like black people can't be hired anymore. It's just they have to compete like everyone else without being treated like disabled people.

pkulak 2y ago
That’s not how DEI works at all, and you probably know that, but being “short, quippy and wrong” is just so easy.
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  Your response is shorter than my comment. And is factually wrong. Pot, meet kettle. As far as DEI, that's exactly how it works: https://i.imgur.com/SFf8IL7.png https://i.imgur.com/SFf8IL7.png You see, I show evidence. Unlike you.
  - pkulak 2y ago
    Yes, a random S3 upload that 401s. You nailed it.
  - pertymcpert 2y ago
    I'm by no means right wing or a Trump supporter, but the fact that your comment earlier was flagged is complete bullshit.
  - cmsj 2y ago
    If that's what you consider to be useful evidence in a topic as complex as this one, heaven help whoever is paying you to make smart decisions for them.
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      Maybe it's complex for you, it's not complex for me. Any discrimination based on race, sex, age is illegal and immoral. You got brainwashed into thinking it's not.
pacomerh 2y ago
You have been misinformed of how DEI works. Its goal is basically equal access to resources, addressing systemic inequities, and fostering an inclusive culture where everyone feels valued.
- pertymcpert 2y ago
  You cannot address systemic inequalities at the hiring level without some preferential treatment. The idea was that if you had two candidates who were equally strong, you pick the one from an underrepresented/disadvantaged background because they've had to work harder to get to the same place. At a surface level that is a disadvantage at the hiring level to the other one because the other gets a bonus tie-breaker.
  - pkulak 2y ago
    The idea is that instead of just interviewing the people right next to you, who look exactly like you and have your exact background, you make the effort to interview a diverse set of candidates. Then you try to get rid of bias in the hiring process, and make the workplace somewhere that doesn’t make folks who are slightly different miserable. That’s it.
    - imiric 2y ago
      How does a company make an "effort" to interview a diverse set of candidates? There's an applicant queue not under their control, and a filtering phase at every step of the interview process. What you're suggesting is that companies favor candidates who have a different appearance or background than existing employees, which is the definition of bias and discrimination. This is based on ignorant beliefs that people who look the same, have the same gender, ethnicity or background, will inevitably think the same way. These programs are judging people by superficial traits, while claiming they somehow make the hiring process fair. It's ludicrous.
      - eesmith 2y ago
        > There's an applicant queue not under their control Not 100%, sure, but that's far different from 0%. Which job fairs do your company reps attend? Is there a built-in bias causing you to miss out on good candidates? Can employees recommend a friend as a potential recruit? What effect does that have on promoting favoritism over a better candidate? > What you're suggesting is that companies favor candidates who have a different appearance or background than existing employees, which is the definition of bias and discrimination. No. The suggestion is that companies should not favor candidates because they have the same appearance or background than existing employees. If the core team is all from Local Church, and their friend network is all from Local Church, then should they favor that network to hire someone else from Local Church, or should other candidates be judged with equal weight? The former discriminates on the basis of religion, and is prohibited in most cases. Bearing the latter in mind is DEI. Requiring new candidates to not be fro Local Church is also discrimination on the basis of religion, and is equally prohibited. It is not DEI.
AlotOfReading 2y ago
Imagine that someone decides recruiting needs a budget cut and shrinks the travel budget a bit. Managers shift to local career fairs instead. No one notices the complete lack of bay area HBCUs and a couple years down the road the pipeline is filled with people from Stanford with internships and internal recommendations competing against people from HBCUs that don't have either of them. One of these populations will look vastly more qualified on paper.
- scarab92 2y ago
  Google should be free to do that if they want. Companies shouldn't be expected to solve every problem in society, and certainly not social issues.
  - AlotOfReading 2y ago
    I'm not describing some hypothetical here. This was the main way employment discrimination worked after the passage of the EEOA.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  The bay area tech scene was built on Stanford grads wanting to stay in the area and buying cheap farm land to start businesses.
rob74 2y ago
Well, if they prefer a black candidate to a white one, the white one can complain of being discriminated against and accuse them of promoting DEI, which under the new administration can have all sorts of bad consequences for them. So they'd better play it safe and hire the white candidate...
- Jensson 2y ago
  That is no different than a black guy accusing them of racism, so it evens out.
MadcapJake 2y ago
> It's just they have to compete like everyone else That's the whole point of DEI to ensure that *no one* is getting an unfair advantage because: - their name is white https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2024/04/17/new-research-reveals-resumes-with-black-names-experience-bias-in-the-hiring-process/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2024/04/17/new-res... - recruitment is only occurring at certain places - or any other ways that bias can filter out perfectly good candidates DEI is not about picking lesser candidates to fill quotas, it's about ensuring the human recruiters don't get in the way of the best talent joining your company.
- scarab92 2y ago
  A big part of the unpopularity of DEI programs is the dishonesty. We all know that these programs don't result in better candidates, and that standards are lowered, not raised, when they are introduced. Just be honest about it and make the case for why you think lowering standards is a worthwhile sacrifice to accomodate people from diverse backgrounds. Even better, make the case for why considering any of this is a companies responsiblity in the first place.

pkulak 2y ago

That’s not how DEI works at all, and you probably know that, but being “short, quippy and wrong” is just so easy.

bufferoverflow 2y ago
Your response is shorter than my comment. And is factually wrong. Pot, meet kettle. As far as DEI, that's exactly how it works: https://i.imgur.com/SFf8IL7.png https://i.imgur.com/SFf8IL7.png You see, I show evidence. Unlike you.
- pkulak 2y ago
  Yes, a random S3 upload that 401s. You nailed it.
- pertymcpert 2y ago
  I'm by no means right wing or a Trump supporter, but the fact that your comment earlier was flagged is complete bullshit.
- cmsj 2y ago
  If that's what you consider to be useful evidence in a topic as complex as this one, heaven help whoever is paying you to make smart decisions for them.
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Maybe it's complex for you, it's not complex for me. Any discrimination based on race, sex, age is illegal and immoral. You got brainwashed into thinking it's not.

pacomerh 2y ago

You have been misinformed of how DEI works. Its goal is basically equal access to resources, addressing systemic inequities, and fostering an inclusive culture where everyone feels valued.

pertymcpert 2y ago
You cannot address systemic inequalities at the hiring level without some preferential treatment. The idea was that if you had two candidates who were equally strong, you pick the one from an underrepresented/disadvantaged background because they've had to work harder to get to the same place. At a surface level that is a disadvantage at the hiring level to the other one because the other gets a bonus tie-breaker.
- pkulak 2y ago
  The idea is that instead of just interviewing the people right next to you, who look exactly like you and have your exact background, you make the effort to interview a diverse set of candidates. Then you try to get rid of bias in the hiring process, and make the workplace somewhere that doesn’t make folks who are slightly different miserable. That’s it.
  - imiric 2y ago
    How does a company make an "effort" to interview a diverse set of candidates? There's an applicant queue not under their control, and a filtering phase at every step of the interview process. What you're suggesting is that companies favor candidates who have a different appearance or background than existing employees, which is the definition of bias and discrimination. This is based on ignorant beliefs that people who look the same, have the same gender, ethnicity or background, will inevitably think the same way. These programs are judging people by superficial traits, while claiming they somehow make the hiring process fair. It's ludicrous.
    - eesmith 2y ago
      > There's an applicant queue not under their control Not 100%, sure, but that's far different from 0%. Which job fairs do your company reps attend? Is there a built-in bias causing you to miss out on good candidates? Can employees recommend a friend as a potential recruit? What effect does that have on promoting favoritism over a better candidate? > What you're suggesting is that companies favor candidates who have a different appearance or background than existing employees, which is the definition of bias and discrimination. No. The suggestion is that companies should not favor candidates because they have the same appearance or background than existing employees. If the core team is all from Local Church, and their friend network is all from Local Church, then should they favor that network to hire someone else from Local Church, or should other candidates be judged with equal weight? The former discriminates on the basis of religion, and is prohibited in most cases. Bearing the latter in mind is DEI. Requiring new candidates to not be fro Local Church is also discrimination on the basis of religion, and is equally prohibited. It is not DEI.

AlotOfReading 2y ago

Imagine that someone decides recruiting needs a budget cut and shrinks the travel budget a bit. Managers shift to local career fairs instead. No one notices the complete lack of bay area HBCUs and a couple years down the road the pipeline is filled with people from Stanford with internships and internal recommendations competing against people from HBCUs that don't have either of them. One of these populations will look vastly more qualified on paper.

scarab92 2y ago
Google should be free to do that if they want. Companies shouldn't be expected to solve every problem in society, and certainly not social issues.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  I'm not describing some hypothetical here. This was the main way employment discrimination worked after the passage of the EEOA.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
The bay area tech scene was built on Stanford grads wanting to stay in the area and buying cheap farm land to start businesses.

rob74 2y ago

Well, if they prefer a black candidate to a white one, the white one can complain of being discriminated against and accuse them of promoting DEI, which under the new administration can have all sorts of bad consequences for them. So they'd better play it safe and hire the white candidate...

Jensson 2y ago
That is no different than a black guy accusing them of racism, so it evens out.

MadcapJake 2y ago

> It's just they have to compete like everyone else That's the whole point of DEI to ensure that *no one* is getting an unfair advantage because: - their name is white https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2024/04/17/new-research-reveals-resumes-with-black-names-experience-bias-in-the-hiring-process/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2024/04/17/new-res... - recruitment is only occurring at certain places - or any other ways that bias can filter out perfectly good candidates DEI is not about picking lesser candidates to fill quotas, it's about ensuring the human recruiters don't get in the way of the best talent joining your company.

scarab92 2y ago
A big part of the unpopularity of DEI programs is the dishonesty. We all know that these programs don't result in better candidates, and that standards are lowered, not raised, when they are introduced. Just be honest about it and make the case for why you think lowering standards is a worthwhile sacrifice to accomodate people from diverse backgrounds. Even better, make the case for why considering any of this is a companies responsiblity in the first place.