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Mystery brain disease patients in New Brunswick say they welcome investigation
- neom 2y agoBeen following this on and off and it's pretty strange generally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_neurological_syndrome_of_unknown_cause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_neurological_syn... && https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/14/magazine/canada-brain-disease-dementia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/14/magazine/canada-brain-dis...
- inverted_flag 2y ago> The CJDSS ruled out any prion disorder, including Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) Thank god.
- devmor 2y agoThat was my knee-jerk scenario to think of too - especially given the rising prevalence of Chronic Wasting Disease in the US states near that part of Canada. It's notable that the CJDSS director said they ruled out "known forms of prion disease" specifically, and the neuropathologist Jansen stated "no evidence for a prion disease was found" - I think the sentence you're quoting is actually misleading because it seems to suggest that there is negative evidence for a prion disorder, which there is not.
- rtkwe 2y agoSeems like it would be exceedingly difficult, bordering on impossible, to make a categorical negative finding that there's no possibility of prions because you'd have to have a test to detect any misfolded protein at all.
- devmor 2y agoI am not a medical professional, so take this opinion with a grain of salt, but it seems like it should theoretically be possible to test for a concentration of misfolded proteins that propagate themselves. How complex or expensive this could be is not something I have any insight into at all, it could be something that takes millions of dollars and 20 years per test.
- rtkwe 2y agoOnly for ones that bind to the proteins in your testing apparatus though. If this hypothetical new prion doesn't bind to the slate of proteins in the test it wouldn't show anything. Unless there's an easy way to detect the fibrils they form more easily and generally.
- userbinator 2y agoFrom your first link: symptoms such as "rapidly progressing dementia", unusual weight loss, "tightening of the muscles", uncoordinated gait, and muscle atrophy Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate-induced_delayed_polyneuropathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate-induced_delaye...
- tpoacher 2y agoGiven other comments on this thread regarding large densities of mosquitoes, this might actually make sense if large amounts of insecticides are used in the region.
- Mistletoe 2y ago> Jansen presented his findings to 20 to 30 colleagues in which he suggested that the eight patients previously diagnosed with the novel neurological syndrome, "represent a group of misclassified clinical diagnoses", and that they "died from a variety of causes, including cancer, Lewy body dementia and Alzheimer's disease" It seems this isn’t that complex of a case really though? Upon autopsy they just had normal issues.
- zug_zug 2y agoI won’t presume to suggest a cause, but it’s worth acknowledging how terrifying it is that any of a number of compounds in a relatively small dose could cause wild effects on the human mind or body.
- Paul-Craft 2y agoThere have been sufferers ranging from age 18-85, and it affects both men and women in approximately equal numbers. Both of those things are highly suggestive of some kind of environmental cause. If this were an episode of House, a lot of peoples' homes would be getting broken into right about now.
- ackbar03 2y agoThey break into people's houses in that show?
- EricBetts 2y agoYup; it isn’t a realistic show, but entertaining.
- taurknaut 2y agoIt's a medical take on Sherlock Holmes. Everything makes more sense when viewed through that lens.
- rzzzt 2y agoHouse sends off one of his minions who find the brake cleaner in the sink cupboard, from which he immediately figures out that the patient's erratic behavior stems from a disease of the liver so the previous brain surgery was largely unneccesary.
- OutOfHere 2y agoThis has got to be either a prion (from animal and/or soil) or a natural chemical neurotoxin (from seafood or other food). This has been going on for a long while, so I associate it with an ongoing coverup of the facts that are too dangerous to disclose.
- trod1234 2y ago> That are too dangerous to disclose "All beings in the universe are different. Humans are so dumb that they think heart disease is the leading cause of death, when in fact it's the almond milk... not even the gray's touch the stuff." - Resident Alien (TV Show), "Homesick". Jokes meant to impart some brief levity aside, Until there is a serious amount of independent resources put towards a study of this, I don't think anyone is going to find out what's causing this.
- awakeasleep 2y agoWhat sort of industrial chemical manufacturing plants are in the area?
- neom 2y agoThe chem hypothesis is down these lines: https://www.conservationcouncil.ca/investigate-glyphosate-connection-to-mystery-brain-disease-neurologist/ https://www.conservationcouncil.ca/investigate-glyphosate-co... and https://nbmediacoop.org/2024/10/10/could-a-neurotoxin-researched-on-guam-hold-clues-to-new-brunswicks-mystery-brain-condition/ https://nbmediacoop.org/2024/10/10/could-a-neurotoxin-resear... - Some people think it's related to seafood, they eat a lot of lobster in NB, way more than the rest of Canada, but it doesn't seem to be an issue with the other areas out there and they eat a lot of lobster also.
- chefandy 2y agoMaybe post-catch or something— like a cleaning chemical used in fish markets or something— but one branch of my family are lobstermen in nearby waters south of the border and I haven’t heard of any such thing happening in their communities.
- mrguyorama 2y agoI have connections to lobster fishermen and woodsmen working Irving woods here in Maine and neither have any experience like this. Does Irving spray defoliant in the US? What we DO have is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_Frenchmen_of_Maine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_Frenchmen_of_Maine Interestingly, that article massively downplays how much this affects my family, and how clearly genetic it is. I literally and physically struggle to not do something my girlfriend asks me to do, a la the plot of Bioshock. She will explicitly tell me "WHEN YOU HAVE TIME or WHEN YOU NEXT COME OUT, bring me some water" and I cannot wait to do it. This behavior generalizes across siblings and generations, including to my somewhat deadbeat father who did not raise me, and thus it cannot be a learned response. This might seem quaint or just "nice", but both sides of my family have extreme ADHD in the form of complete executive dysfunction. I find it nearly impossible to force myself to do things that I WANT to do, but as soon as someone makes a suggestion I have absolutely no blocker to doing that thing (that I have no interest in doing). Unfortunately this effect doesn't counter my executive dysfunction. If I NEED to do something, the suggestion effect doesn't help nearly as much. I believe this syndrome may be related to some weird form of ADHD that my family carries but that's entirely unfounded speculation based on this observation and how much overlap there is between many of our symptoms and symptoms found in standard Neurodivergences like ADHD and Autism. The much funnier aspect of this syndrome is that my entire family, without coordination, has taught our significant others to warn us when they do something like pop a champagne cork, or open one of those Pillsbury crescent roll containers, and we have extreme aversions and startle responses when those two specific sound events are concerned. It's funny every time.
- b112 2y agoSome areas have a strong familial tree. Even with new blood over 100+ years, some genes may be dominant. I wonder if it's that, plus the environmental factor. A mutated gene, dominant, always passed on, making the population susceptible.
- _yb2s 2y agoThat is not how a dominant trait in genetics works- it means you only need one copy to express the phenotype, but it is no more likely to be passed on than any other genetic trait. It is possible to have a trait that occurs with high frequency in a population- so that almost everyone has 2 copies of it.
- TriangleEdge 2y agoContext: Moncton is built on a swamp. It has _a lot_ of mosquitoes during summer and 3 to 5 ft of snow during winter. It had (has?) the lowest home prices in all of Canada because of this. NB also has the lowest income per family (or next to lowest, Nunavut might be lower). MS is more common in northern climates as well, but afaik it's not higher than average in NB. Source: I have spent quite a bit of time in Moncton.
- omnibrain 2y ago> It has _a lot_ of mosquitoes Can mosquitoes transmit prions?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- trod1234 2y agoIn 2019, the conclusion for this question by medical professionals was maybe for mosquitoes, but definitely for arthropods like ticks.
- sandworm101 2y agoAnything that pokes into one mammal and then into another might be able to transmit basically anything. This is why doctors dont reuse needles no matter the percieved risk.
- itsoktocry 2y ago>It had (has?) the lowest home prices in all of Canada because of this. When was this? Moncton is the biggest and fastest growing city in New Brunswick.
- Marsymars 2y agoAnd Moncton/Saint John/Fredericton all have pretty comparable prices.
- teeray 2y ago
- xer0x 2y agoI am still stunned how eager they were to ignore this problem.
- _yb2s 2y agoSeems like an unidentified virus could be the cause?
- trod1234 2y agoIt is unlikely. The samples collected would be checked for fragments. Most likely its something novel that's been thawing out from climate change. That or a unique modified form of an existing chemical, or something else that hasn't been considered. There's some real fringe stuff out there in chemistry that open a whole can of what-ifs, that mainstream science might scoff at and not study seriously. Something like this might be the cause, albeit very unlikely, still there are things stranger than fiction. Spitballing here, Water has Memory, where an EM, or NQR signal of extremely dilute substance or dissolved chemical can cause certain unnatural forms of molecules to stabilize in aqueous solutions, or alternatively impart its effects because water mimics the nature of the dissolved substance for a time at higher concentrations than may be detectable. There were a number of scientists looking into these anomalies, including a Nobel laureate, but they were all largely discredited without rational basis or support by those doing the discrediting.
- nick__m 2y agoWater has no memory, this is pseudoscience that leads to directly homeopathy. Homeopathy is not a medecine it's a religion!
- _yb2s 2y agoA lot of those claims about water physics used to market homeopathy are based on real experimental observations- see the link in my other reply, water really does do some strange and complex stuff. But the problem is that these observations do not actually support the claims of homeopathy at all- the attempt at connecting the two is entirely nonsense. I like to try to be open minded about fringe science and medical ideas... but homeopathy really takes the cake, and is the type of total nonsense that gives the rest of that type of stuff a bad name.
- _yb2s 2y ago
- thih9 2y agoMoving out seems to help - wild. > The couple moved to a new town — Canaan Station, N.B. — and Nesbitt made lifestyle and dietary changes. Nesbitt has also started playing video games to improve hand-eye coordination. “There are some things that are still regressing or still degenerating, but many of the symptoms have started to relieve themselves,” she said. > She still has seizures and tremors, but they’re not as bad or frequent. She’s also able to stand for longer than a “couple of minutes,” and the nerve tingling on one side of her body is not as frequent.
- zachanderson 2y ago[flagged]
- nobodywillobsrv 2y agoThe government should provide data on this. There is very little information in the story.
- mb7733 2y agoThe govt has provided a lot of info/data, but is just a random news story. See here: https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/health/neuro-cluster.html https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/health/neuro-...
- miniwark 2y agoWhat i do not understand in this case, is why politics are involved in this ? Why do the fact than a local government changed from Conservative to Liberal, did have an impact on the story ? Either a case must be opened or closed, must be decided by doctors & researchers alone, not because of politics.
- trod1234 2y ago> What I do not understand in this case is why politics are involved? This is a rural area with a lot of forest. The forestry service uses high concentrations of glyphosate dumped from helicopters to thin the forest. The forestry service, and its use of glyphosphate is government, and with any government sponsored issue politics will make or break some politician's day. The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter that tests sampled at points show glyphosphate levels are well under the point where adverse risks occurred in the labs. It is possible the chemicals are inducing toxins in microflora that are novel which then cause these issues. Regenesis had such an episodal plotline with fungal spores. It is also equally possible that the safety testing didn't properly conform to standards, where adverse effects are found at much lower levels than advertised. The cluster areas according to some news outlets seem correlated to the aerial spraying which is why there's such a push to find out what's going on, while the politicians at higher levels don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.
- itsoktocry 2y ago>This is a rural area with a lot of forest. The forestry service uses high concentrations of glyphosate dumped from helicopters to thin the forest. Moncton is not a "rural area with a lot of forest".
- xattt 2y agoThe forest is essentially “a cow’s fart and two shakes of a lamb’s tale” away from Moncton in a 20 km radius from downtown.
- newsclues 2y ago
- pentel-0_5 2y agoVaguely-similar symptoms: Hollinwell Incident https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61551003 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61551003 The key, I think, would be to gather blood, tissue, air, soil, water, and food samples to rule out simpler environmental causes.
- byyoung3 2y agosounds like a contaminant
- byyoung3 2y agoneed to test for heavy metals as well as water contaminants
- engineer_22 2y agochronic gingivitis cited as a symptom. oral should not be ruled out
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ryanwinchester 2y agomy current favourite theory is glyphosate promotes blue-green algae growth, which creates a neurotoxin
- sheepscreek 2y agoIt’s both frustrating and disheartening that the investigation into this disease has been ongoing since 2000. Sometimes, I can’t help but feel that we, Canadians, lack a sense of urgency. These individuals have endured years of suffering. I hope we get some breakthroughs now, for their sake.
- neom 2y agoFor their sake certainly, but frankly for all our sakes also. I've never felt comfortable knowing this is going on both because obviously it's awful for the people involved but selfishly... we can't just have stuff like this happening in the country, doesn't matter if it's rural or city, shit like this is a sign of a dysfunctional society at large and it's how things like COVID-19 happen, the feds not taking it very seriously and superseding the Provence and municipality is not good in instances like this, they should have boots on the ground years ago with an answer, this is insane to me. (sorry for the rant, just dives me nuts what the country is coming to, and it's not politics imo, it's us as Canadians who are the problem right now)
- sheepscreek 2y ago> since 2000 Edit: I meant 2020.
- josefritzishere 2y agoprions
- codr7 2y agoMe thinks it sounds possible from the described symptoms, but there are plenty of toxic substances in use with similar effects.
- cpncrunch 2y agoIs there any actual evidence that this is a novel brain disease? Or is it an assortment of FND, dementia, Alzheimers and Parkinson's at the same levels seen elsewhere? From my understanding, it seems to be the latter, and has been blown up out of all proportion because people are worried that it might be something else. However, they have done a lot of research on these cases and not found anything abnormal. We can certainly see the worry, even in all the comments here speculating about various causes.
- atombender 2y agoMany of the patients are young (the youngest ones are teens), and in some cases it's happening to several members of the same family around the same time. The doctor who raised the alarm here does not come across as alarmist, and it's being taken seriously. It also seems too homogenous (hits women and men, young and old equally) to be chance.
- cpncrunch 2y agoFND checks all those boxes and is the most common neurology diagnosis.
- rapjr9 2y agoThe US Army tested Agent Orange in an area near Gagetown, about 80 miles from Moncton, in 1967. Maybe some drums of Agent Orange got left in the woods somewhere in the area and are leaking into the water table today? https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/reports-publications/agent-orange.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corpora...
- Valkryst 2y agoI used to hang around someone who's dad was allegedly doused in Agent Orange in the New Brunswick woods, possibly around that time. Their father apparently developed a lot of mental health issues, and they were also born with some severe ones themselves. I've also heard talk of glyphosate allegedly causing health issues in New Brunswickers, and that Irving uses it as an herbicide for their woodlands across New Brunswick.
- JohnnyLarue 2y agoThis has been studied, and multiple times concluded that there is no mystery brain disease. This is all based upon one doctor's very shoddy investigation based almost entirely on supposition, and for the media to keep treating it credulously is absurd clickbaiting.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- joy222 2y ago[dead]
- memkit 2y agoThe link between BMAA and neurodegenerative diseases is well established. New Brunswick has huge BMAA problems. The fishing and aquaculture industry is alleged to suppress the BMAA theory, because less people would buy and eat New Brunswick lobster and fish.
- kazishariar 2y agohttps://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0312837 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...