4 ms·

Two main factors: * automatic downranks and delisting from FP, algorithmically by HN * manual flagging by the users @dang says there’s little to no manual mo

by nico 2y ago

Two main factors: * automatic downranks and delisting from FP, algorithmically by HN * manual flagging by the users @dang says there’s little to no manual moderation, but over the years the site has been tuned to only allow a little bit of political discussion Here are a few useful recent comments by @dang about it: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42949237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42949237 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42911011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42911011

creativenolo 2y ago
Super interesting. > Since some people perceive discussion quality to be (relatively) high on HN It’s really not at the moment on so many discussion worthy topics. I get it, there will be the same old tropes and opinions but HN does a great job of cutting through the noise and unveiling interesting perspectives. I’m surprised and a little disappointed. And left wondering where to find the discussions on such topics that are worth reading.
- nico 2y ago
  Same. Let me know if you find a place or have any ideas on how to start one
- deleted 2y ago
tayo42 2y ago
flagging is being abused IMO once i realized its happening
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Voting, moderation, and flagging are affordances with predictable uses. Even the designers of such systems may find themselves being told the equivalent of "you're holding it wrong" (this occure to me some time back in an earlier life). I'd generally defer to actual use as well-known reality, rather than unqualified abuse. If that causes problems with platform goals, then the system should build in checks on such impacts, as HN has.
  - tayo42 2y ago
    There's been a ton of news about the cross between tech billionaires and politics that all have repurcussions for the economy and industry but not only do they none not end up on the front page they're flagged to death. Hn loves discussing airplanes, but nothing about elons wreckless approach to the faa going forward can be discussed because users are flagging?
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      Oh, there are definitely Topics HN Cannot Discuss, and that's a long-time frustration of mine, see: <https://web.archive.org/web/20190115023534/https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/E5uNNxmnjir https://web.archive.org/web/20190115023534/https://plus.goog...> (2018). Also: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30376111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30376111> (2022). Point remains that the best way to resolve this isn't snark or whinging on threads, but emails to mods. They (dang and others) are well aware of this limitation and have occasionally expressed frustrations. Member-based moderation works relatively well, for much discussion, but does have some profound limitations. Acknowledge and work with those.
      - tayo42 2y ago
        I don't think I'm whining or being snarky. I made one comment based on observations and shared my worthless opinion. I don't expect to resolve it, I'm just a passer by, it's not my website. I'm fammilar with the mostly hands off approach the mods want to take towards topics here.
        dredmorbius 2y ago
        HN Guidelines: Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. <https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html> (Flagging here is effectively a type of voting behaviour.) As to issues with HN's collaborative filtering (voting, flagging, vouching) features, dang's addressed that: Sure there's abuse of the flagging system; there's abuse of everything. But HN's system as a whole (consisting of community, moderators, and software) has countervailing mechanisms for that and other abuses.... <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22153315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22153315>
BOOSTERHIDROGEN 2y ago
I am wondering how Dang manages a continuous stream of posts. Does he monitor it full-time?
- dang 2y ago
  I'm not the only mod (just the only one who posts publicly) - but even if you put all of us together, we can't monitor everything that gets posted here. We rely on users to bring things to our attention. Does that answer your question?
  - BOOSTERHIDROGEN 2y ago
    Thank you for your response. I still believe that this is a great forum because the moderators manage it effectively. I hope you and your team keep enhancing HN.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Chiming in: flags, and in egregious / urgent cases, email to hn@ycombinator.com. That email backlog is apparently expanding, ~12--24 hours per dang's recent comments, so both expect and respect that. For general-purpose abuse, I prefer simply flagging. To disable flags on an article I'll email mods, that occurs fairly rarely. If an account seems to be flagrantly violating HN Guidelines, and has had previous warnings (you can use the replies endpoint to find those: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42571073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42571073>), I'll drop an email as well.
leotravis10 2y ago
Not to mention that so many posts that people share got shut down and censored by the mods and admins after users flag it to death. They don't want to admit it but the truth is that they're all in to the current coup that's happening in Washington right now. That's turning into a fact every single day now.

by nico 2y ago

creativenolo 2y ago

Super interesting. > Since some people perceive discussion quality to be (relatively) high on HN It’s really not at the moment on so many discussion worthy topics. I get it, there will be the same old tropes and opinions but HN does a great job of cutting through the noise and unveiling interesting perspectives. I’m surprised and a little disappointed. And left wondering where to find the discussions on such topics that are worth reading.

nico 2y ago
Same. Let me know if you find a place or have any ideas on how to start one
deleted 2y ago

tayo42 2y ago

flagging is being abused IMO once i realized its happening

dredmorbius 2y ago
Voting, moderation, and flagging are affordances with predictable uses. Even the designers of such systems may find themselves being told the equivalent of "you're holding it wrong" (this occure to me some time back in an earlier life). I'd generally defer to actual use as well-known reality, rather than unqualified abuse. If that causes problems with platform goals, then the system should build in checks on such impacts, as HN has.
- tayo42 2y ago
  There's been a ton of news about the cross between tech billionaires and politics that all have repurcussions for the economy and industry but not only do they none not end up on the front page they're flagged to death. Hn loves discussing airplanes, but nothing about elons wreckless approach to the faa going forward can be discussed because users are flagging?
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Oh, there are definitely Topics HN Cannot Discuss, and that's a long-time frustration of mine, see: <https://web.archive.org/web/20190115023534/https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/E5uNNxmnjir https://web.archive.org/web/20190115023534/https://plus.goog...> (2018). Also: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30376111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30376111> (2022). Point remains that the best way to resolve this isn't snark or whinging on threads, but emails to mods. They (dang and others) are well aware of this limitation and have occasionally expressed frustrations. Member-based moderation works relatively well, for much discussion, but does have some profound limitations. Acknowledge and work with those.
    - tayo42 2y ago
      I don't think I'm whining or being snarky. I made one comment based on observations and shared my worthless opinion. I don't expect to resolve it, I'm just a passer by, it's not my website. I'm fammilar with the mostly hands off approach the mods want to take towards topics here.
      - dredmorbius 2y ago
        HN Guidelines: Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. <https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html> (Flagging here is effectively a type of voting behaviour.) As to issues with HN's collaborative filtering (voting, flagging, vouching) features, dang's addressed that: Sure there's abuse of the flagging system; there's abuse of everything. But HN's system as a whole (consisting of community, moderators, and software) has countervailing mechanisms for that and other abuses.... <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22153315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22153315>

BOOSTERHIDROGEN 2y ago

I am wondering how Dang manages a continuous stream of posts. Does he monitor it full-time?

dang 2y ago
I'm not the only mod (just the only one who posts publicly) - but even if you put all of us together, we can't monitor everything that gets posted here. We rely on users to bring things to our attention. Does that answer your question?
- BOOSTERHIDROGEN 2y ago
  Thank you for your response. I still believe that this is a great forum because the moderators manage it effectively. I hope you and your team keep enhancing HN.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Chiming in: flags, and in egregious / urgent cases, email to hn@ycombinator.com. That email backlog is apparently expanding, ~12--24 hours per dang's recent comments, so both expect and respect that. For general-purpose abuse, I prefer simply flagging. To disable flags on an article I'll email mods, that occurs fairly rarely. If an account seems to be flagrantly violating HN Guidelines, and has had previous warnings (you can use the replies endpoint to find those: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42571073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42571073>), I'll drop an email as well.

leotravis10 2y ago

Not to mention that so many posts that people share got shut down and censored by the mods and admins after users flag it to death. They don't want to admit it but the truth is that they're all in to the current coup that's happening in Washington right now. That's turning into a fact every single day now.