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I don't have an opinion on the political aspects of this, but I find the choice of uploading all your data to a central server by default an insane choice, and

I don't have an opinion on the political aspects of this, but I find the choice of uploading all your data to a central server by default an insane choice, and I hate that this is the default in the modern world. Why can't software come in a box, like it used to - then it can run on a machine that I control, and only talk to machines that I control too. Then it's not a matter of belief and blind trust and hoping against hope that nobody's spying on me - it's the matter of basic common sense and due diligence.

krapp 2y ago
>Why can't software come in a box, like it used to - then it can run on a machine that I control, and only talk to machines that I control too. At some point you will want or need to talk to machines you don't control, because society consists of people other than yourself, and machines that they control. And in this hell of other people, "basic common sense and due diligence" are synonymous with blind trust.
- torginus 2y ago
  IRC used to work like I described, and it had no trouble talking to strangers. Websites are usually hosted on machines the owner controls, running software the owner controls, yet have no trouble talking to the external world.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > IRC used to work like I described, and it had no trouble talking to strangers. Except for the server, which is usually run on a box you don't control. > Websites are usually hosted on machines the owner controls, running software the owner controls, yet have no trouble talking to the external world. Most websites are absolutely not ran on machines the owner controls...
    - torginus 2y ago
      But the important thing is in both cases, I have the option of running it like that, if security is important to me. In the case of Slack, Discord or Teams I have to implicitly trust the mothership. In a world where all these companies are eager to hide clauses that allow them to train on your data, and where controversies pop up where Tesla employees share your in-car camera videos among each other, I'd rather have a product where I can limit who I need to trust, especially if I'm running something as sensitive as a government agency.

krapp 2y ago

>Why can't software come in a box, like it used to - then it can run on a machine that I control, and only talk to machines that I control too. At some point you will want or need to talk to machines you don't control, because society consists of people other than yourself, and machines that they control. And in this hell of other people, "basic common sense and due diligence" are synonymous with blind trust.

torginus 2y ago
IRC used to work like I described, and it had no trouble talking to strangers. Websites are usually hosted on machines the owner controls, running software the owner controls, yet have no trouble talking to the external world.
- squigz 2y ago
  > IRC used to work like I described, and it had no trouble talking to strangers. Except for the server, which is usually run on a box you don't control. > Websites are usually hosted on machines the owner controls, running software the owner controls, yet have no trouble talking to the external world. Most websites are absolutely not ran on machines the owner controls...
  - torginus 2y ago
    But the important thing is in both cases, I have the option of running it like that, if security is important to me. In the case of Slack, Discord or Teams I have to implicitly trust the mothership. In a world where all these companies are eager to hide clauses that allow them to train on your data, and where controversies pop up where Tesla employees share your in-car camera videos among each other, I'd rather have a product where I can limit who I need to trust, especially if I'm running something as sensitive as a government agency.