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It is hard for me to imagine any entrenched civil service being cooperative with plans to shit can their jobs. So I'm not sure that means much. Almost by huma

by ty6853 2y ago

It is hard for me to imagine any entrenched civil service being cooperative with plans to shit can their jobs. So I'm not sure that means much. Almost by human nature, most people are uncooperative ( and deemed such ) with plans to end their dental plan and rent money.

littlestymaar 2y ago
In democratic countries, civil servants aren't supposed to be changed after each elections, while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power (and should they not obey to the order from above, there are disciplinary sanctions that can be leveraged against them). And it's not some theoretical idea, in all Western democracies, every civil servant that has been in place for long enough has seen governments from multiple political sides. That's how it works. Using illegal means to purge the institutions from undesired people is not something that happens in a democracy, this is unprecedented in the West since Gleichschaltung.
- leovingi 2y ago
  >while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power Have you forgotten Trump's first presidential term? The resistance [1], the gleeful celebration of the "deep state" fighting back against Trump [2], a US general calling his Chinese counterparts before the 2020 election [3]? Bureaucrats cannot fight against a democratically elected executive, call themselves the resistance and then be surprised when they are treated as the resistance. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-state.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-... [3] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-called-china-twice-trump-term-ended-report-2021-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-cal...
  - asdffdasy 2y ago
    if you actualy read past the thongue in cheek titles, you would realize the insanity of your argument. for example, you are defending firing workers for: “People are just going to have to accept the results,” he told The Washington Post. “I’m a Republican. I believe in fair and secure elections.” ...some dangerous deep state, indeed.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    I shouldn't have to mention it, but refusing to listen to illegal orders is obviously part of a civil servant's duty. In a democracy, a civil servant must respect the law even if it goes against orders. When all you have civil servants who respect their boss's orders even when it goes against the law, you have left the domain of democracy.

by ty6853 2y ago

littlestymaar 2y ago

In democratic countries, civil servants aren't supposed to be changed after each elections, while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power (and should they not obey to the order from above, there are disciplinary sanctions that can be leveraged against them). And it's not some theoretical idea, in all Western democracies, every civil servant that has been in place for long enough has seen governments from multiple political sides. That's how it works. Using illegal means to purge the institutions from undesired people is not something that happens in a democracy, this is unprecedented in the West since Gleichschaltung.

leovingi 2y ago
>while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power Have you forgotten Trump's first presidential term? The resistance [1], the gleeful celebration of the "deep state" fighting back against Trump [2], a US general calling his Chinese counterparts before the 2020 election [3]? Bureaucrats cannot fight against a democratically elected executive, call themselves the resistance and then be surprised when they are treated as the resistance. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-state.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-... [3] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-called-china-twice-trump-term-ended-report-2021-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-cal...
- asdffdasy 2y ago
  if you actualy read past the thongue in cheek titles, you would realize the insanity of your argument. for example, you are defending firing workers for: “People are just going to have to accept the results,” he told The Washington Post. “I’m a Republican. I believe in fair and secure elections.” ...some dangerous deep state, indeed.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  I shouldn't have to mention it, but refusing to listen to illegal orders is obviously part of a civil servant's duty. In a democracy, a civil servant must respect the law even if it goes against orders. When all you have civil servants who respect their boss's orders even when it goes against the law, you have left the domain of democracy.