3 ms·

What you say is true, but these corporate diversity efforts are mostly used for PR and aren't actually making a difference to any race or community. The simple

by paxys 2y ago

What you say is true, but these corporate diversity efforts are mostly used for PR and aren't actually making a difference to any race or community. The simple truth is that tech companies are going to hire any qualified engineer they can find, regardless of whether they are in a minority group or not and whether there is a DEI department at the company or not. So the question that should be asked is – why are black people (5-6% of CS graduates vs 15% of population), women (16-18% of CS graduates vs 50.5% of population), latinos (7% of CS graduates vs 20% of US population) etc. not pursuing STEM education and graduating with engineering degrees at the same rate as white and asian men? And what can we do to fix that? Diversity hiring at the corporate level is not the solution to the problem, education and training is.

teractiveodular 2y ago
You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests, and the only reason women are not studying computer science/car repair/welding is sexism.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  Ultimately the onus is on the people claiming a genetic component to find it and prove it. There are known social issues and have been for quite some time, after all there are people alive today who experienced segregation. So if there's some genetic bias at play, as long as the social issues are right there staring us in the face, you're going to need to advance the science of genetics to get the answer. Without that it just comes off "race science" and that kind of thing.
- devnullbrain 2y ago
  That's a non-sequitur, there can be non-genetic and non-sexism cultural reasons that influence study tendencies, or a blend of all three.
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    Such as? If a specific culture puts women off studying CS, than that culture is sexist, no?
    - scarmig 2y ago
      If 90% of nurses are women, is nursing culture sexist against men?
      - sadeshmukh 2y ago
        Yes.
- Quarrelsome 2y ago
  > You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests Are you seriously suggesting that black people are genetically less predispositioned to program? Explain the evolutionary advantage to that please because that sounds absolutely absurd.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    A lot of conservatives and American libertarians do say that some races are genetically inferior including in terms of intelligence and that they get what they deserve given their subhumanity
    - Quarrelsome 2y ago
      That's some real Nazi shit right there and I thought y'all were on the side of the free world or whatever. How does someone exist in 2025 with such ignorant views? I don't get it. MLK was like 60 years ago.
      - wahnfrieden 2y ago
        Don’t ask me
      - mobiuscog 2y ago
        Have you not seen Trump, the 'leader' of the 'Free World', also inaugurated on MLK day... He is the best example of how someone exists in 2025 with such ignorant views, and those who voted for him share that.
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    Here's a strawman: White people are more likely to diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders (ASD). If people with ASD are more likely to opt for CS degrees, by induction we'll have more white people in CS.
    - mobiuscog 2y ago
- abhiyerra 2y ago
  I think it may be just a lack of role models. When I went to high school in 2005 (30% black, 30% Latino) all of them basically modeled themselves after who they saw on tv. Blacks gravitated towards sports. Hispanics towards construction and woodworking. The whites in my school mostly came from military, first responders so lot of them went military/firemen. I being one of the few Indians at the school gravitated toward tech because that was what I saw men in my community going to (even before the parental pressure). I don’t think any of them were dumb, just focused on the things they saw members of their community do.
Quarrelsome 2y ago
from my very basic reading on the subject I believe the cause is a lack of black students coming through top universities. I have seen it stated that there are many black developers but many of them do not have degrees and learn to program outside of university. I found this particularly interesting because this is my background as well, I come from a nation less hung up on degrees and willing to accept experience as a substitute. Corporations could help by considering interviewing developers who go to other universities or those with good experience but without degrees.
tommiegannert 2y ago
Part of DEI at Google is to engage with universities to understand why some prefer not to study STEM/PR/whatnot. Shutting it down at Google will also affect the education pipeline. Agreed on PR (or avoidance of negative publicity) being the main driver for Pichai to engage in the discussion, but there are many people at Google who care. Disclaimer: worked at Google in Europe.

by paxys 2y ago

teractiveodular 2y ago

You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests, and the only reason women are not studying computer science/car repair/welding is sexism.

EA-3167 2y ago
Ultimately the onus is on the people claiming a genetic component to find it and prove it. There are known social issues and have been for quite some time, after all there are people alive today who experienced segregation. So if there's some genetic bias at play, as long as the social issues are right there staring us in the face, you're going to need to advance the science of genetics to get the answer. Without that it just comes off "race science" and that kind of thing.
devnullbrain 2y ago
That's a non-sequitur, there can be non-genetic and non-sexism cultural reasons that influence study tendencies, or a blend of all three.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  Such as? If a specific culture puts women off studying CS, than that culture is sexist, no?
  - scarmig 2y ago
    If 90% of nurses are women, is nursing culture sexist against men?
    - sadeshmukh 2y ago
      Yes.
Quarrelsome 2y ago
> You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests Are you seriously suggesting that black people are genetically less predispositioned to program? Explain the evolutionary advantage to that please because that sounds absolutely absurd.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  A lot of conservatives and American libertarians do say that some races are genetically inferior including in terms of intelligence and that they get what they deserve given their subhumanity
  - Quarrelsome 2y ago
    That's some real Nazi shit right there and I thought y'all were on the side of the free world or whatever. How does someone exist in 2025 with such ignorant views? I don't get it. MLK was like 60 years ago.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      Don’t ask me
    - mobiuscog 2y ago
      Have you not seen Trump, the 'leader' of the 'Free World', also inaugurated on MLK day... He is the best example of how someone exists in 2025 with such ignorant views, and those who voted for him share that.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  Here's a strawman: White people are more likely to diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders (ASD). If people with ASD are more likely to opt for CS degrees, by induction we'll have more white people in CS.
  - mobiuscog 2y ago
abhiyerra 2y ago
I think it may be just a lack of role models. When I went to high school in 2005 (30% black, 30% Latino) all of them basically modeled themselves after who they saw on tv. Blacks gravitated towards sports. Hispanics towards construction and woodworking. The whites in my school mostly came from military, first responders so lot of them went military/firemen. I being one of the few Indians at the school gravitated toward tech because that was what I saw men in my community going to (even before the parental pressure). I don’t think any of them were dumb, just focused on the things they saw members of their community do.

Quarrelsome 2y ago

from my very basic reading on the subject I believe the cause is a lack of black students coming through top universities. I have seen it stated that there are many black developers but many of them do not have degrees and learn to program outside of university. I found this particularly interesting because this is my background as well, I come from a nation less hung up on degrees and willing to accept experience as a substitute. Corporations could help by considering interviewing developers who go to other universities or those with good experience but without degrees.

tommiegannert 2y ago

Part of DEI at Google is to engage with universities to understand why some prefer not to study STEM/PR/whatnot. Shutting it down at Google will also affect the education pipeline. Agreed on PR (or avoidance of negative publicity) being the main driver for Pichai to engage in the discussion, but there are many people at Google who care. Disclaimer: worked at Google in Europe.