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I was assured right here on HN that the data was public to begin with, and downvoted for suggesting it was possible unseen corruption. Hopefully if that is tru

by ty6853 2y ago

I was assured right here on HN that the data was public to begin with, and downvoted for suggesting it was possible unseen corruption. Hopefully if that is true they find it just matches what has released publicly. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ty6853&next=42914628#42905219 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ty6853&next=42914628...

littlestymaar 2y ago
This whole operation is as related to finding corruption exhibits as the Moscow trials were to finding traitors in the Red Army. It is a (ridiculous) pretext for purging the system from people that the new power deems “uncooperative”.
- ty6853 2y ago
  It is hard for me to imagine any entrenched civil service being cooperative with plans to shit can their jobs. So I'm not sure that means much. Almost by human nature, most people are uncooperative ( and deemed such ) with plans to end their dental plan and rent money.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    In democratic countries, civil servants aren't supposed to be changed after each elections, while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power (and should they not obey to the order from above, there are disciplinary sanctions that can be leveraged against them). And it's not some theoretical idea, in all Western democracies, every civil servant that has been in place for long enough has seen governments from multiple political sides. That's how it works. Using illegal means to purge the institutions from undesired people is not something that happens in a democracy, this is unprecedented in the West since Gleichschaltung.
    - leovingi 2y ago
      >while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power Have you forgotten Trump's first presidential term? The resistance [1], the gleeful celebration of the "deep state" fighting back against Trump [2], a US general calling his Chinese counterparts before the 2020 election [3]? Bureaucrats cannot fight against a democratically elected executive, call themselves the resistance and then be surprised when they are treated as the resistance. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-state.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-... [3] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-called-china-twice-trump-term-ended-report-2021-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-cal...
      - asdffdasy 2y ago
        if you actualy read past the thongue in cheek titles, you would realize the insanity of your argument. for example, you are defending firing workers for: “People are just going to have to accept the results,” he told The Washington Post. “I’m a Republican. I believe in fair and secure elections.” ...some dangerous deep state, indeed.
      - littlestymaar 2y ago
        I shouldn't have to mention it, but refusing to listen to illegal orders is obviously part of a civil servant's duty. In a democracy, a civil servant must respect the law even if it goes against orders. When all you have civil servants who respect their boss's orders even when it goes against the law, you have left the domain of democracy.
- krapp 2y ago
  Yeah, I mean Musk has literally tweeted that DOGE is "dismantling the radical-left shadow government."[0] This is not about efficiency or rooting out corruption, it's about persecuting political enemies and purging wrongthink. Which was something people here screamed bloody murder about when they accused Biden of doing it, just by asking Twitter to moderate content, but I guess this is all fine now. [0]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886840365329608708 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886840365329608708
  - ty6853 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      When did the left do this to the right? Be specific please.
      - snailmailstare 2y ago
        I think it was in the basement of pizza place.
      - Gothmog69 2y ago
        From 2008 on
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        That's not very specific. Can you list some events/actions/behaviors/etc that you see as analogous to what's going on today?
        ty6853 2y ago
        What's going on today with doge is what exactly? They're accessing payment systems, as advertised openly in a democratic election. You want analogies of a scrutinizing funding and then viciously calling for its retraction? Because pretty much all colors and creeds have done that.

by ty6853 2y ago

littlestymaar 2y ago

This whole operation is as related to finding corruption exhibits as the Moscow trials were to finding traitors in the Red Army. It is a (ridiculous) pretext for purging the system from people that the new power deems “uncooperative”.

ty6853 2y ago
It is hard for me to imagine any entrenched civil service being cooperative with plans to shit can their jobs. So I'm not sure that means much. Almost by human nature, most people are uncooperative ( and deemed such ) with plans to end their dental plan and rent money.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  In democratic countries, civil servants aren't supposed to be changed after each elections, while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power (and should they not obey to the order from above, there are disciplinary sanctions that can be leveraged against them). And it's not some theoretical idea, in all Western democracies, every civil servant that has been in place for long enough has seen governments from multiple political sides. That's how it works. Using illegal means to purge the institutions from undesired people is not something that happens in a democracy, this is unprecedented in the West since Gleichschaltung.
  - leovingi 2y ago
    >while they have their individual opinions they know their duty and follow the orders that come from the political power Have you forgotten Trump's first presidential term? The resistance [1], the gleeful celebration of the "deep state" fighting back against Trump [2], a US general calling his Chinese counterparts before the 2020 election [3]? Bureaucrats cannot fight against a democratically elected executive, call themselves the resistance and then be surprised when they are treated as the resistance. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-state.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/trump-fauci-deep-... [3] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-called-china-twice-trump-term-ended-report-2021-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-cal...
    - asdffdasy 2y ago
      if you actualy read past the thongue in cheek titles, you would realize the insanity of your argument. for example, you are defending firing workers for: “People are just going to have to accept the results,” he told The Washington Post. “I’m a Republican. I believe in fair and secure elections.” ...some dangerous deep state, indeed.
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      I shouldn't have to mention it, but refusing to listen to illegal orders is obviously part of a civil servant's duty. In a democracy, a civil servant must respect the law even if it goes against orders. When all you have civil servants who respect their boss's orders even when it goes against the law, you have left the domain of democracy.
krapp 2y ago
Yeah, I mean Musk has literally tweeted that DOGE is "dismantling the radical-left shadow government."[0] This is not about efficiency or rooting out corruption, it's about persecuting political enemies and purging wrongthink. Which was something people here screamed bloody murder about when they accused Biden of doing it, just by asking Twitter to moderate content, but I guess this is all fine now. [0]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886840365329608708 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886840365329608708
- ty6853 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    When did the left do this to the right? Be specific please.
    - snailmailstare 2y ago
      I think it was in the basement of pizza place.
    - Gothmog69 2y ago
      From 2008 on
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        That's not very specific. Can you list some events/actions/behaviors/etc that you see as analogous to what's going on today?
        ty6853 2y ago
        What's going on today with doge is what exactly? They're accessing payment systems, as advertised openly in a democratic election. You want analogies of a scrutinizing funding and then viciously calling for its retraction? Because pretty much all colors and creeds have done that.