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When I came over to the states to go to a tech conference at a NASDAQ listed billion dollar corp that bought us, the only black people I met were either working

When I came over to the states to go to a tech conference at a NASDAQ listed billion dollar corp that bought us, the only black people I met were either working at the hotels (90% of that staff) or living in the nearby inner city. I don't pretend to understand the USA, and maybe that conference wasn't representative, but to me it was quite shocking that the disparity was so clearly visible. So I think its a bit of a shame they're losing this, because from my perspective there was still a clear gap in terms of education outcomes which feed corporate and I would have liked to think these policies were helping to address that.

wahnfrieden 2y ago
You will be told that any systemic initiatives to address that are racist against whites who deserve more of a share of whatever is being done for others. Likewise any policies or initiatives along class line divisions are taking resources away from others who deserve a share of what may be given for disenfranchised/impoverished classes
paxys 2y ago
What you say is true, but these corporate diversity efforts are mostly used for PR and aren't actually making a difference to any race or community. The simple truth is that tech companies are going to hire any qualified engineer they can find, regardless of whether they are in a minority group or not and whether there is a DEI department at the company or not. So the question that should be asked is – why are black people (5-6% of CS graduates vs 15% of population), women (16-18% of CS graduates vs 50.5% of population), latinos (7% of CS graduates vs 20% of US population) etc. not pursuing STEM education and graduating with engineering degrees at the same rate as white and asian men? And what can we do to fix that? Diversity hiring at the corporate level is not the solution to the problem, education and training is.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests, and the only reason women are not studying computer science/car repair/welding is sexism.
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    Ultimately the onus is on the people claiming a genetic component to find it and prove it. There are known social issues and have been for quite some time, after all there are people alive today who experienced segregation. So if there's some genetic bias at play, as long as the social issues are right there staring us in the face, you're going to need to advance the science of genetics to get the answer. Without that it just comes off "race science" and that kind of thing.
  - devnullbrain 2y ago
    That's a non-sequitur, there can be non-genetic and non-sexism cultural reasons that influence study tendencies, or a blend of all three.
    - teractiveodular 2y ago
      Such as? If a specific culture puts women off studying CS, than that culture is sexist, no?
      - scarmig 2y ago
        If 90% of nurses are women, is nursing culture sexist against men?
        sadeshmukh 2y ago
        Yes.
  - Quarrelsome 2y ago
    > You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests Are you seriously suggesting that black people are genetically less predispositioned to program? Explain the evolutionary advantage to that please because that sounds absolutely absurd.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
- Quarrelsome 2y ago
  from my very basic reading on the subject I believe the cause is a lack of black students coming through top universities. I have seen it stated that there are many black developers but many of them do not have degrees and learn to program outside of university. I found this particularly interesting because this is my background as well, I come from a nation less hung up on degrees and willing to accept experience as a substitute. Corporations could help by considering interviewing developers who go to other universities or those with good experience but without degrees.
- tommiegannert 2y ago
  Part of DEI at Google is to engage with universities to understand why some prefer not to study STEM/PR/whatnot. Shutting it down at Google will also affect the education pipeline. Agreed on PR (or avoidance of negative publicity) being the main driver for Pichai to engage in the discussion, but there are many people at Google who care. Disclaimer: worked at Google in Europe.
greenchair 2y ago
when you go to a car repair shop, would it shock you to see 99% males working there?
- Quarrelsome 2y ago
  I was expecting the US office to be more diverse than my UK office, given the large black population in the US, but that wasn't the case which surprised me.
  - lotsoweiners 2y ago
    Depends on where you are in the US. My city is very low black population compared to other large cities.
    - Quarrelsome 2y ago
      sure, but this was 20m from a major city with a large black population (23%).

wahnfrieden 2y ago

You will be told that any systemic initiatives to address that are racist against whites who deserve more of a share of whatever is being done for others. Likewise any policies or initiatives along class line divisions are taking resources away from others who deserve a share of what may be given for disenfranchised/impoverished classes

paxys 2y ago

What you say is true, but these corporate diversity efforts are mostly used for PR and aren't actually making a difference to any race or community. The simple truth is that tech companies are going to hire any qualified engineer they can find, regardless of whether they are in a minority group or not and whether there is a DEI department at the company or not. So the question that should be asked is – why are black people (5-6% of CS graduates vs 15% of population), women (16-18% of CS graduates vs 50.5% of population), latinos (7% of CS graduates vs 20% of US population) etc. not pursuing STEM education and graduating with engineering degrees at the same rate as white and asian men? And what can we do to fix that? Diversity hiring at the corporate level is not the solution to the problem, education and training is.

teractiveodular 2y ago
You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests, and the only reason women are not studying computer science/car repair/welding is sexism.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  Ultimately the onus is on the people claiming a genetic component to find it and prove it. There are known social issues and have been for quite some time, after all there are people alive today who experienced segregation. So if there's some genetic bias at play, as long as the social issues are right there staring us in the face, you're going to need to advance the science of genetics to get the answer. Without that it just comes off "race science" and that kind of thing.
- devnullbrain 2y ago
  That's a non-sequitur, there can be non-genetic and non-sexism cultural reasons that influence study tendencies, or a blend of all three.
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    Such as? If a specific culture puts women off studying CS, than that culture is sexist, no?
    - scarmig 2y ago
      If 90% of nurses are women, is nursing culture sexist against men?
      - sadeshmukh 2y ago
        Yes.
- Quarrelsome 2y ago
  > You're assuming there is no genetic component whatsoever to human skills and interests Are you seriously suggesting that black people are genetically less predispositioned to program? Explain the evolutionary advantage to that please because that sounds absolutely absurd.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
Quarrelsome 2y ago
from my very basic reading on the subject I believe the cause is a lack of black students coming through top universities. I have seen it stated that there are many black developers but many of them do not have degrees and learn to program outside of university. I found this particularly interesting because this is my background as well, I come from a nation less hung up on degrees and willing to accept experience as a substitute. Corporations could help by considering interviewing developers who go to other universities or those with good experience but without degrees.
tommiegannert 2y ago
Part of DEI at Google is to engage with universities to understand why some prefer not to study STEM/PR/whatnot. Shutting it down at Google will also affect the education pipeline. Agreed on PR (or avoidance of negative publicity) being the main driver for Pichai to engage in the discussion, but there are many people at Google who care. Disclaimer: worked at Google in Europe.

greenchair 2y ago

when you go to a car repair shop, would it shock you to see 99% males working there?

Quarrelsome 2y ago
I was expecting the US office to be more diverse than my UK office, given the large black population in the US, but that wasn't the case which surprised me.
- lotsoweiners 2y ago
  Depends on where you are in the US. My city is very low black population compared to other large cities.
  - Quarrelsome 2y ago
    sure, but this was 20m from a major city with a large black population (23%).