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Most European EV sales that aren't Tesla are European brands like Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Skoda), BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis (Pueguot, Fiat, Opel),

Most European EV sales that aren't Tesla are European brands like Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Skoda), BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis (Pueguot, Fiat, Opel), Renault-Nissan (Renault, Dacia, Nissan), or Korea's Hyundai. The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo. You can see this in EU EV industry data as well from JATO (the EU's auto industry trade group) - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/european-bev-demand-slows-tesla-volkswagen-lose-ground https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/euro...

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
> The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo. Probably depends on the country? I see a ton of BYDs on the road here (Austria).
- alephnerd 2y ago
  I'm not sure about Austria, but these are the cross-EU stats [0]. And in the largest EU markets (Germany, France, Italy, Spain), it's overwhelmingly local players. Chinese players have started gaining some traction, but that's overwhelmingly Geely via Volvo. And Geely began their expansion abroad largely due to domestic competition within China, with most consumers preferring either a BYD or a Tesla. [0] - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/european-bev-demand-slows-tesla-volkswagen-lose-ground https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/euro...
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    That link talks about H1 2024 and says this about BYD: > BYD registered 17,000 electric cars - 14,000 more compared to H1 2023. In fact, BYD’s rapid growth allowed it to outsell Nissan, Smart, Toyota, Polestar, Citroen, Dacia, Ford, Mini, Porsche, and Mazda. As a result, BYD is now Europe’s 16th best-selling BEV brand - the second Chinese brand following MG, which held 8th place in the BEV ranking. Would be interesting to know how H2 did.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > Would be interesting to know how H2 did We'll see in a couple months, but probably not well, because EU EV sales shrank overall in 2024 [0] > That link talks about H1 2024 and says this about BYD: Yea, but primarily this - "BYD is now Europe’s 16th best-selling BEV brand". It's total sales are still dwarfed by existing giants in the EU market, as the H1 24 sales data has shown. The brands it outsold are those that didn't really target EU BEV sales (eg. Ford, Renault) or are conservative in their EV approach (eg. Nissan, Toyota) The only Chinese firm that has kind of cracked the European market is Geely, and that's because they were able to leverage Volvo to sell a rebadged Geely as the XC30. [0] - https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-news/ev-sales-across-europe-fall-1-1-2024-amid-concerns-pricing-infrastructure-30-01-2025 https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-new...
- mgraupner 2y ago
  Germany: 2.891 new BYDs compared to 232.886 new BMWs in 2024. I haven't seen one yet, even though I usually check for new cars.
  - Yeul 2y ago
    I see a bunch of them in the Netherlands. Dutch people have no allegiance to anything but their wallet and like experimenting.
- woodpanel 2y ago
  yeah, seems „a ton“ is relative: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/993281/umfrage/pkw-neuzulassungen-mit-elektroantrieb-in-oesterreich-nach-modell/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/993281/umfrag... might be because other brand‘s cars aren’t always recognizable as EVs…
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    Well the Seal is the third most sold electric car model in Austria. Does not surprise me I see it.
nprateem 2y ago
BYD
xnx 2y ago
BYD is currently hampered by 45% EU tariffs. BYD vehicles should be much more cost competitive once they have a factory in the EU.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  BYD is planning on a second factory after the first in Hungary is operational (2H 2025, ~1-2 years ahead of schedule). https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-byd-bmw-car-plants-hungary-start-production-h2-2025-2024-11-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-by... https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-will-consider-second-european-plant-2025executive-says-2024-05-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-wi... https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-byd-build-new-energy-vehicle-production-base-hungary-2023-12-22/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas...
- mgraupner 2y ago
  Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinese-ev-makers-file-challenges-tariffs-eu-court-2025-01-23/#:~:text=The%20EU%20imposed%20tariffs%20on,car%20import%20duty%20of%2010%25. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines... It's 27% for BYD and it was introduced end of October 2024, I guess it had no big effect on sales.
jfkrrorj 2y ago
I see tons of electric bikes from China.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Electric Bikes maybe. But Electric Bikes ain't competing for the same market share as a car. End of the day, the biggest EV sellers in Europe remain either Tesla or European conglomerates. And this is the same story for just about every large economy. No country wants an outsider player selling products that disadvantage local players.
  - jfkrrorj 2y ago
    > Most European EV sales that aren't Tesla are European brands like Bikes are still "vehicles". Problem is that stuff like Tesla are luxuries, we simply can not afford that! Bikes are an alternative on the same market. An alternative that is heavily advertised by our governments! If there is a significant difference between car and bike, you should tell our government! Not everyone has resources to treat their car as an IPhone!
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      Absolutely, yet at the end of the day Electric Bikes are not treated as EVs in colloquial conversation and are not a direct substitute for a Car in most cases. And I'm sure yk this too.
      - jfkrrorj 2y ago
        It is direct substitute! You can absolutely carry family of 5 and furniture on bike! See Denmark and India!
        alephnerd 2y ago
        > You can absolutely carry family of 5 and furniture on bike! See Denmark and India! I can't speak to Denmark, but in India people resort to buying electric bikes because of income. The moment they earn enough to pay for a car loan, they go for it, as people in my ancestral town have done. That said, even in India, most 2 wheeler/electric bike sales are largely being driven by Ola - India's Uber/Tesla/AWS - because they are subsidizing Ola drivers to buy Ola Electric bikes. And that is what is driving most E-Bike sales in India. That, even in India the sale of electric bikes has fallen significantly [0] At the end of the day, in a market like India, if you can afford a car, you buy a car. And if you're buying a car in a market like India, you'd tend to prefer an SUV due to the negative stigma against sedans ("sedans are for p*ssies" mindset is the norm, and drives the popularity of vehicles is HC as the Mahindra Thar) [1][2] The same mentality exists in the Indian 2-Wheeler/Bike community, with the KTM being treated as the gold standard. The same "macho" style mentality that makes Pickup trucks popular in North America and Thailand is the same one that exists in India for SUVs (ICE or Electric) or Two Wheelers. IMO, EVs and especially EV Sedans have done well in the Chinese market because the status symbol ICE car in China has historically been the Audi A6/A8, but in India the equivalent ICE car status symbol wise has been the Jaguar Land Rover [3] [0] - https://www.cnbctv18.com/auto/electric-two-wheeler-sales-drops-ola-electric-tvs-motor-ather-energy-bajaj-auto-19472431.htm/amp https://www.cnbctv18.com/auto/electric-two-wheeler-sales-dro... [1] - https://motoroctane.com/news/267798-why-is-everyone-buying-suvs-in-india/amp https://motoroctane.com/news/267798-why-is-everyone-buying-s... [2] - https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/why-the-mahindra-thar-has-received-nationwide-hype-like-no-other-vehicle-101723973376871-amp.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/why-the-mahindra-tha... [3] - https://www.cartoq.com/indian-politicians-and-their-land-rover-suvs-mk-stalins-defender-to-narendra-modis-range-rover/ https://www.cartoq.com/indian-politicians-and-their-land-rov...
gnfargbl 2y ago
There are significant numbers of MG cars (SAIC Motor) on the roads in the UK. I see more of them than Polestars (Geely/Volvo).
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Even then, the overwhelming majority of sales are either Tesla, VW Group (Audi, Skoda, VW), BMW, or Hyundai [0]. European automotive groups like VW will own multiple badges/brands so it won't be as prominent but they continue to retain dominance [0] - https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/official-figures-show-record-ev-sales-in-2024 https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/official-figures-s...
physicsguy 2y ago
There’s BYD garages popping up all over the place though. Not seen many on the road yet…

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

> The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo. Probably depends on the country? I see a ton of BYDs on the road here (Austria).

alephnerd 2y ago
I'm not sure about Austria, but these are the cross-EU stats [0]. And in the largest EU markets (Germany, France, Italy, Spain), it's overwhelmingly local players. Chinese players have started gaining some traction, but that's overwhelmingly Geely via Volvo. And Geely began their expansion abroad largely due to domestic competition within China, with most consumers preferring either a BYD or a Tesla. [0] - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/european-bev-demand-slows-tesla-volkswagen-lose-ground https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/euro...
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  That link talks about H1 2024 and says this about BYD: > BYD registered 17,000 electric cars - 14,000 more compared to H1 2023. In fact, BYD’s rapid growth allowed it to outsell Nissan, Smart, Toyota, Polestar, Citroen, Dacia, Ford, Mini, Porsche, and Mazda. As a result, BYD is now Europe’s 16th best-selling BEV brand - the second Chinese brand following MG, which held 8th place in the BEV ranking. Would be interesting to know how H2 did.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > Would be interesting to know how H2 did We'll see in a couple months, but probably not well, because EU EV sales shrank overall in 2024 [0] > That link talks about H1 2024 and says this about BYD: Yea, but primarily this - "BYD is now Europe’s 16th best-selling BEV brand". It's total sales are still dwarfed by existing giants in the EU market, as the H1 24 sales data has shown. The brands it outsold are those that didn't really target EU BEV sales (eg. Ford, Renault) or are conservative in their EV approach (eg. Nissan, Toyota) The only Chinese firm that has kind of cracked the European market is Geely, and that's because they were able to leverage Volvo to sell a rebadged Geely as the XC30. [0] - https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-news/ev-sales-across-europe-fall-1-1-2024-amid-concerns-pricing-infrastructure-30-01-2025 https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-new...
mgraupner 2y ago
Germany: 2.891 new BYDs compared to 232.886 new BMWs in 2024. I haven't seen one yet, even though I usually check for new cars.
- Yeul 2y ago
  I see a bunch of them in the Netherlands. Dutch people have no allegiance to anything but their wallet and like experimenting.
woodpanel 2y ago
yeah, seems „a ton“ is relative: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/993281/umfrage/pkw-neuzulassungen-mit-elektroantrieb-in-oesterreich-nach-modell/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/993281/umfrag... might be because other brand‘s cars aren’t always recognizable as EVs…
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  Well the Seal is the third most sold electric car model in Austria. Does not surprise me I see it.

nprateem 2y ago

BYD

xnx 2y ago

BYD is currently hampered by 45% EU tariffs. BYD vehicles should be much more cost competitive once they have a factory in the EU.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
BYD is planning on a second factory after the first in Hungary is operational (2H 2025, ~1-2 years ahead of schedule). https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-byd-bmw-car-plants-hungary-start-production-h2-2025-2024-11-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-by... https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-will-consider-second-european-plant-2025executive-says-2024-05-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-wi... https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-byd-build-new-energy-vehicle-production-base-hungary-2023-12-22/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas...
mgraupner 2y ago
Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinese-ev-makers-file-challenges-tariffs-eu-court-2025-01-23/#:~:text=The%20EU%20imposed%20tariffs%20on,car%20import%20duty%20of%2010%25. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines... It's 27% for BYD and it was introduced end of October 2024, I guess it had no big effect on sales.

jfkrrorj 2y ago

I see tons of electric bikes from China.

alephnerd 2y ago
Electric Bikes maybe. But Electric Bikes ain't competing for the same market share as a car. End of the day, the biggest EV sellers in Europe remain either Tesla or European conglomerates. And this is the same story for just about every large economy. No country wants an outsider player selling products that disadvantage local players.
- jfkrrorj 2y ago
  > Most European EV sales that aren't Tesla are European brands like Bikes are still "vehicles". Problem is that stuff like Tesla are luxuries, we simply can not afford that! Bikes are an alternative on the same market. An alternative that is heavily advertised by our governments! If there is a significant difference between car and bike, you should tell our government! Not everyone has resources to treat their car as an IPhone!
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Absolutely, yet at the end of the day Electric Bikes are not treated as EVs in colloquial conversation and are not a direct substitute for a Car in most cases. And I'm sure yk this too.
    - jfkrrorj 2y ago
      It is direct substitute! You can absolutely carry family of 5 and furniture on bike! See Denmark and India!
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        > You can absolutely carry family of 5 and furniture on bike! See Denmark and India! I can't speak to Denmark, but in India people resort to buying electric bikes because of income. The moment they earn enough to pay for a car loan, they go for it, as people in my ancestral town have done. That said, even in India, most 2 wheeler/electric bike sales are largely being driven by Ola - India's Uber/Tesla/AWS - because they are subsidizing Ola drivers to buy Ola Electric bikes. And that is what is driving most E-Bike sales in India. That, even in India the sale of electric bikes has fallen significantly [0] At the end of the day, in a market like India, if you can afford a car, you buy a car. And if you're buying a car in a market like India, you'd tend to prefer an SUV due to the negative stigma against sedans ("sedans are for p*ssies" mindset is the norm, and drives the popularity of vehicles is HC as the Mahindra Thar) [1][2] The same mentality exists in the Indian 2-Wheeler/Bike community, with the KTM being treated as the gold standard. The same "macho" style mentality that makes Pickup trucks popular in North America and Thailand is the same one that exists in India for SUVs (ICE or Electric) or Two Wheelers. IMO, EVs and especially EV Sedans have done well in the Chinese market because the status symbol ICE car in China has historically been the Audi A6/A8, but in India the equivalent ICE car status symbol wise has been the Jaguar Land Rover [3] [0] - https://www.cnbctv18.com/auto/electric-two-wheeler-sales-drops-ola-electric-tvs-motor-ather-energy-bajaj-auto-19472431.htm/amp https://www.cnbctv18.com/auto/electric-two-wheeler-sales-dro... [1] - https://motoroctane.com/news/267798-why-is-everyone-buying-suvs-in-india/amp https://motoroctane.com/news/267798-why-is-everyone-buying-s... [2] - https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/why-the-mahindra-thar-has-received-nationwide-hype-like-no-other-vehicle-101723973376871-amp.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/why-the-mahindra-tha... [3] - https://www.cartoq.com/indian-politicians-and-their-land-rover-suvs-mk-stalins-defender-to-narendra-modis-range-rover/ https://www.cartoq.com/indian-politicians-and-their-land-rov...

gnfargbl 2y ago

There are significant numbers of MG cars (SAIC Motor) on the roads in the UK. I see more of them than Polestars (Geely/Volvo).

alephnerd 2y ago
Even then, the overwhelming majority of sales are either Tesla, VW Group (Audi, Skoda, VW), BMW, or Hyundai [0]. European automotive groups like VW will own multiple badges/brands so it won't be as prominent but they continue to retain dominance [0] - https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/official-figures-show-record-ev-sales-in-2024 https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/official-figures-s...

physicsguy 2y ago

There’s BYD garages popping up all over the place though. Not seen many on the road yet…