5 ms·
Chinese have far better and cheaper EV cars. Getting spare parts for Tesla in Europe is a nightmare!
by jfkrrorj 2y ago
Chinese have far better and cheaper EV cars. Getting spare parts for Tesla in Europe is a nightmare!
- woodpanel 2y agoCompletely uninformed statement. Its impressive what they achieved in such a short time but neither the xiaomi nor the BYD Seal is anywhere close to what it is mimicking.
- throwaway5752 2y agoMost people don't need or want FSD. They want an actual steering wheel and an actual stalk in order to activate turn signals. They want reliable well-made electric vehicles that don't take long to repair. Musk has spent many billions of dollars building something his target market doesn't require. Tesla does not currently have product-market fit. Musk should resign his board and CEO positions and stop interfering with internal decision-making. And refrain from rumored ketamine use.
- josephcsible 2y ago> They want a steering wheel and stalk in order to activate turn signals. They just brought that back in the Juniper refresh.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago>Tesla does not currently have product-market fit. Yet, it sells the best selling car on Earth.
- jcranmer 2y ago> Yet, it sells the best selling car on Earth. A lot of that is selling just 2 mass-market models. And it only barely beats out the Toyota Corolla, except that Toyota also sells the third highest volume model (the RAV-4) and the 8th (the Camry).
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago>It only barely beats out the Toyota Corolla "Only" does a lot here. The Corolla is the #1 product of a century-old conglomerate. Tesla started mass-producing cars less than 17 years ago.
- rsynnott 2y agoThat’s largely as a result of its branding strategy (single brand, only two mass-market models). There are 19 production vehicles based on VW’s MEB platform, say, most of them very similar. This is fairly typical; all of the big car manufacturers have at least a couple of brands, and many models, and some (notably VW, Stellantis, GM) have _dozens_ of brands, largely with shared platforms.
- tzs 2y agoBut when you add up sales for all models from each company, there are 12 companies that sell more cars each year. Market share is 11.07% Toyota, 6.41% VW, 4.87% Honda, 4.82% Ford, 4.56% Hyundai, 3.84% Nissan, 3.77% Suzuki, 3.53% Kia, 3.48% Chevrolet, 3.47% BYD, 2.67% Mercedes-Benz, then 2.77% for Audi and Tesla, and bringing up the rear of the top 15 is 1.85% for Renault
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y agoYet, Tesla makes more profit than most. It's like saying Apple has no market-fit vs Android because it's far less popular… until you realize it's a strategic choice to sell fewer vehicles but at higher margins. Tesla hasn't started going down market with cheaper cars. But they've said new, cheaper models will be released by June 2025. We'll see what happens for the cheaper and higher-volume segment of the auto market. But for now, Tesla has the most popular model with the highest margins.
- bdangubic 2y agopeople might even want fsd if it worked… except of course it only works on the highway and my 1986 hyundai had cruise control that did 93% of what tesla’s “f”sd does
- jfkrrorj 2y agoIt just shows how uninformed you are! BYD Seal is 2000kg car, we do not want that! Europeans want EVs that are maybe 600kg to do shopping and drive around town. 80kms on single charge and 50kmph are quite acceptable parameters. If I can remove car battery, put it on a cart, and take it to my apartment on 10th floor via elevator, even better! I need to charge it over night! If I could spare $50k on new car, I would buy ICE before they are banned!
- hagbard_c 2y agoWho is we here? Europe is a big place with a lot of countries which are very different from other European countries. Here in Sweden that 600 kg 80 km/charge 50 kmph car would not do so well since it would run out of juice on the way back from the supermarket for a substantial part of the population, it would get stuck in the snow in winter and does not have enough power to keep the interior are a reasonable temperature when outside it is anything but reasonable. It might sell in Stockholm but then only to affluent citizens who'd use it next to their other two or three vehicles.
- amenhotep 2y agoI'm all in on thinking modern cars are too fat but "maybe 600kg" is an absurd suggestion. That's less than a Smart Fortwo. There'll be a market for that but it's not what "Europeans want".
- Juliate 2y agoBut most cars we had in the 80s were less than 1000kg, and that was fine. Context differ from country to country, and from cities to countryside within countries, but in places where most of the population is concentrated in high-density cities, small cars or alternatives to cars are much, much more desirable than 2000+kg SUVs. Case in point, in France: more and more city centers just drastically reduce cars lanes and accessibility.
- purplethinking 2y agoAh yes, buy cars from an actual brutal dictatorship.
- beardyw 2y agoIs that a sarcastic remark about the USA?
- purplethinking 2y agoNo, are doing whataboutism and ignoring how horrible China is?
- alephnerd 2y agoMost European EV sales that aren't Tesla are European brands like Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Skoda), BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis (Pueguot, Fiat, Opel), Renault-Nissan (Renault, Dacia, Nissan), or Korea's Hyundai. The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo. You can see this in EU EV industry data as well from JATO (the EU's auto industry trade group) - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/european-bev-demand-slows-tesla-volkswagen-lose-ground https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/euro...
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago> The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo. Probably depends on the country? I see a ton of BYDs on the road here (Austria).
- alephnerd 2y agoI'm not sure about Austria, but these are the cross-EU stats [0]. And in the largest EU markets (Germany, France, Italy, Spain), it's overwhelmingly local players. Chinese players have started gaining some traction, but that's overwhelmingly Geely via Volvo. And Geely began their expansion abroad largely due to domestic competition within China, with most consumers preferring either a BYD or a Tesla. [0] - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/european-bev-demand-slows-tesla-volkswagen-lose-ground https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/euro...
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoThat link talks about H1 2024 and says this about BYD: > BYD registered 17,000 electric cars - 14,000 more compared to H1 2023. In fact, BYD’s rapid growth allowed it to outsell Nissan, Smart, Toyota, Polestar, Citroen, Dacia, Ford, Mini, Porsche, and Mazda. As a result, BYD is now Europe’s 16th best-selling BEV brand - the second Chinese brand following MG, which held 8th place in the BEV ranking. Would be interesting to know how H2 did.
- amluto 2y agoGetting service for a Tesla in the US can be pretty unpleasant. They’ve gone from truly excellent service to not wanting to interact with their owners and managing parts availability quite poorly.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoAbsolutely terrible. I had to wait 2 months to get my Model S in for routine service. The day after, the battery pack heater failed and the vehicle would no longer fast DC charge. I was told it would be another 2 months until the vehicle could be looked at. I bought the part myself (1038901-00-K) and replaced it for ~$200 (requiring me to learn and perform the HV pack isolation procedure). Do not recommend.
- olyjohn 2y agoDon't worry, everybody else is following suit and not selling parts for new cars either. My friend just bought a new GM vehicle, and it sat in the bodyshop for 9 months after someone hit the bumper at 5mph. There's also the recent story about a guy running a limo business who couldn't get a bumper for his Cadillac, and had to keep making commercial insurance payments, and of course the car payment, while the car sat and could not be used. https://www.carscoops.com/2025/01/gm-keeps-86k-cadillac-lyriq-owner-waiting-9-months-for-replacement-bumper/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/01/gm-keeps-86k-cadillac-lyri...
- amluto 2y agoWith a legacy car maker, the service centers are independent (sort of). They have phone numbers, they answer the phone, and they want your business. If your car is drivable but needs a part, you can ask them to order it, and they will do so. Tesla service centers do not answer the phone, do not answer email, and generally could not care less about you unless you have an appointment made on the app. And they do not reliably answer messages sent via app. And, while their people might notice that they don’t have a part a day or two before your appointment and tell you this (by in-app message) and advise you not to bother bringing your car in, the automated workflow part of their app does not understand this, and there is a chance that you will get stuck and your car will never get fixed. You can bypass this process to some extent by walking into the service center without an appointment, hopefully getting a friendly person, and having them ask you to make a service appointment while you stand there (using the app on your phone) so they can then log in, find your service appointment, and attempt to get the system to let them order parts while you stand there (a process that may or may not require a tiny amount of actual technician time because, while Tesla has all kinds of telemetry, this telemetry does not integrate at all with the system by which service centers decide what parts are needed).
- josephcsible 2y agoEven if this were true, I'd be willing to pay more to avoid financially supporting the CCP.
- vichle 2y agoThere are a lot of people in Europe that prefer CCP over what the republican party has become.
- The_Colonel 2y agoChina ATM seems to be a smaller threat to Europe than US. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some level of EU-China rapprochement as a result.
- lenerdenator 2y agoThat's what they think, at least. When push comes to shove, it'll be less clear.
- r00fus 2y agoEurope has instituted tariffs for Chinese vehicles up to 35%. Given the low cost of Chinese vehicles, this may not be a big barrier (like in the US where it's 100% tariff). Other than that, I completely agree - and hope that Europe manufacturing can catch up to China on EVs.
- audunw 2y agoOther than BYD, I would be very worried about getting spare parts for Chinese cars as well. Most of those car companies are in a very bad financial situation, in a country where the rest of the country is saddled with a crazy amount of shadow debt as well.