6 ms·

My understanding is that free range law have recently gone into effect in CA. Were the organic eggs already free range? That would explain the price stability

My understanding is that free range law have recently gone into effect in CA. Were the organic eggs already free range? That would explain the price stability there and variation of the non organic.

jeffbee 2y ago
Do you mean cage-free hen regulation? This statewide regulation has been in effect since 2022.
- ars 2y ago
  Free ranging chickens is the proximate cause of Bird Flu. Chickens get it from wild birds that land near them. States are going to have to repeal those laws and confine chickens in sealed buildings to protect them.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Free ranging chickens is the proximate cause of Bird Flu Source? Why is it only American free-range egg farms are being affected, while Canada and Mexico’s are being spared?
    - ars 2y ago
      https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/cage-free-egg-bill-back-discussion-amid-avian-flu-20038603.php https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/cage-free-egg-bil... "Avian flu experts have called for caution in implementing cage-free requirements, noting that poultry exposed to the outdoors have a higher risk of contracting the virus." https://www.wattagnet.com/poultry-meat/diseases-health/avian-influenza/news/15706268/adding-lasers-to-hpai-biosecurity-plan-could-slow-spread https://www.wattagnet.com/poultry-meat/diseases-health/avian... "Incorporating lasers that deter wild bird populations into biosecurity protocols can help prevent the spread of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) between commercial poultry farms." > Why is it only American free-range egg farms are being affected, while Canada and Mexico’s are being spared? Mexico immunizes their birds, which is highly labor intensive, which they can afford due to low wages and the US can't. Canada is far north and the infected wild birds have not gone that far in large numbers (although the numbers are increasing).
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Immunization isn't just about cost. Many countries have decided meat from vaccinated chickens are not safe to eat and the US exports a lot of chicken to those countries. We cannot vaccinate until the others will allow it.
    - jeffbee 2y ago
      Wild birds are indeed the main way that avian influenza spreads, however `ars` is just grinding some axe of theirs. California does not have a free-range chicken regulation. Virtually all commercial chicken flocks in California are already housed indoors. The California "cage-free" regulation only enforces minimal standards against cruelty. It essentially codifies these industry guidelines: https://uepcertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CF-UEP-Guidelines_17-3.pdf https://uepcertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CF-UEP-G...
  - thomasjudge 2y ago
    I would say that the H5 bird flu virus the the proximate cause of bird flu
    - ars 2y ago
      Maybe I'm using the word wrong, but H5 is the root cause, while free range is the proximate cause.
simple10 2y ago
AFAIK, free-range and cage free are not heavily regulated terms like organic, which is a registered and trademark enforced term. At best they just mean the hens have a bit more room to move around. Neither of them actually mean there is no cage. It's why we see "pasture raised" as the more premium marketing term. It still doesn't mean much without looking into the specific farm.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Real pasture raised eggs do taste better. I believe this is because the chicken get to eat bugs - store bought eggs that advertise "fed an all vegetarian diet" taste worse than regular store bought - though both are bad. (taste is of course subjective). Most store bought pasture raised eggs taste just like any other store bought egg - sure the chickens get to pasture but there are too many for them to get enough bugs in their diet.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    It's well known that you can change egg taste by changing chicken feed, some people swear by it. But the more the chicken can "graze naturally" the more likely it is getting everything it wants, which may improve health and taste.
- pests 2y ago
  Michigan just switched to cafe-free only at the start of a year due to a new law going into effect. Prices were increased around the holidays as retailers preemptively switched their stock. Might not be well defined but I’m sure it’s defined enough to be law.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Right - here's the summary of the changes: https://www.michigan.gov/mdard/-/media/Project/Websites/mdard/documents/food-dairy/laws/Cage-Free-Egg-Law-Summary.pdf?rev=55ed2e91324348aba00269a126b01ea9&hash=F656CF61A7780D52338F7560958EBDC2 https://www.michigan.gov/mdard/-/media/Project/Websites/mdar... And the specific section of the law defining 'cage free' for Michigan: https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-287-746 https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-287-7... There may be some flexibility in consumers' understanding of the terms, but of course the legislature has actual rules.

My understanding is that free range law have recently gone into effect in CA. Were the organic eggs already free range? That would explain the price stability there and variation of the non organic.

jeffbee 2y ago

Do you mean cage-free hen regulation? This statewide regulation has been in effect since 2022.

ars 2y ago
Free ranging chickens is the proximate cause of Bird Flu. Chickens get it from wild birds that land near them. States are going to have to repeal those laws and confine chickens in sealed buildings to protect them.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Free ranging chickens is the proximate cause of Bird Flu Source? Why is it only American free-range egg farms are being affected, while Canada and Mexico’s are being spared?
  - ars 2y ago
    https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/cage-free-egg-bill-back-discussion-amid-avian-flu-20038603.php https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/cage-free-egg-bil... "Avian flu experts have called for caution in implementing cage-free requirements, noting that poultry exposed to the outdoors have a higher risk of contracting the virus." https://www.wattagnet.com/poultry-meat/diseases-health/avian-influenza/news/15706268/adding-lasers-to-hpai-biosecurity-plan-could-slow-spread https://www.wattagnet.com/poultry-meat/diseases-health/avian... "Incorporating lasers that deter wild bird populations into biosecurity protocols can help prevent the spread of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) between commercial poultry farms." > Why is it only American free-range egg farms are being affected, while Canada and Mexico’s are being spared? Mexico immunizes their birds, which is highly labor intensive, which they can afford due to low wages and the US can't. Canada is far north and the infected wild birds have not gone that far in large numbers (although the numbers are increasing).
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Immunization isn't just about cost. Many countries have decided meat from vaccinated chickens are not safe to eat and the US exports a lot of chicken to those countries. We cannot vaccinate until the others will allow it.
  - jeffbee 2y ago
    Wild birds are indeed the main way that avian influenza spreads, however `ars` is just grinding some axe of theirs. California does not have a free-range chicken regulation. Virtually all commercial chicken flocks in California are already housed indoors. The California "cage-free" regulation only enforces minimal standards against cruelty. It essentially codifies these industry guidelines: https://uepcertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CF-UEP-Guidelines_17-3.pdf https://uepcertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CF-UEP-G...
- thomasjudge 2y ago
  I would say that the H5 bird flu virus the the proximate cause of bird flu
  - ars 2y ago
    Maybe I'm using the word wrong, but H5 is the root cause, while free range is the proximate cause.

simple10 2y ago

AFAIK, free-range and cage free are not heavily regulated terms like organic, which is a registered and trademark enforced term. At best they just mean the hens have a bit more room to move around. Neither of them actually mean there is no cage. It's why we see "pasture raised" as the more premium marketing term. It still doesn't mean much without looking into the specific farm.

bluGill 2y ago
Real pasture raised eggs do taste better. I believe this is because the chicken get to eat bugs - store bought eggs that advertise "fed an all vegetarian diet" taste worse than regular store bought - though both are bad. (taste is of course subjective). Most store bought pasture raised eggs taste just like any other store bought egg - sure the chickens get to pasture but there are too many for them to get enough bugs in their diet.
- bombcar 2y ago
  It's well known that you can change egg taste by changing chicken feed, some people swear by it. But the more the chicken can "graze naturally" the more likely it is getting everything it wants, which may improve health and taste.
pests 2y ago
Michigan just switched to cafe-free only at the start of a year due to a new law going into effect. Prices were increased around the holidays as retailers preemptively switched their stock. Might not be well defined but I’m sure it’s defined enough to be law.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Right - here's the summary of the changes: https://www.michigan.gov/mdard/-/media/Project/Websites/mdard/documents/food-dairy/laws/Cage-Free-Egg-Law-Summary.pdf?rev=55ed2e91324348aba00269a126b01ea9&hash=F656CF61A7780D52338F7560958EBDC2 https://www.michigan.gov/mdard/-/media/Project/Websites/mdar... And the specific section of the law defining 'cage free' for Michigan: https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-287-746 https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-287-7... There may be some flexibility in consumers' understanding of the terms, but of course the legislature has actual rules.