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> I have no doubt Trump is attempting to trigger a new case in an effort to overturn Train and he may well succeed, but he'll likely end up overturning Article

> I have no doubt Trump is attempting to trigger a new case in an effort to overturn Train and he may well succeed, but he'll likely end up overturning Article 1 in the process. The Train decision came nearly 200 years after Article 1 was written, and during that time impoundment was practiced by Presidents beginning with Thomas Jefferson. Overturning Train would in fact restore the original meaning of Article 1.

tootie 2y ago
There is no way in hell the founders thought a president could unilaterally disassemble an entire agency that was explicitly empowered by Congress. Thomas Jefferson didn't want to buy ships. He didn't try to disband the Navy. And it's possible the SC would have stopped him if Congress had the will. There is not a long history of impoundment being a major tool of executive authority. When Nixon tried to shut down multiple programs within an agency, he was shot down in court and Congress passed a law delineating exactly what he could and could not do. There is no reason to think that law runs afoul of the Constitution. Article 1 does not grant any right to impoundment. The actions of past presidents aren't precedent or else (in the case of Jefferson) we'd still have slavery. If you disagree, please type the words: "The President can unilaterally disband a federal agency empowered by Congress whenever he wants for whatever reason he wants and no one can stop him". Because that is what you are implying.
- deleted 2y ago
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- leereeves 2y ago
  I think it's clear that the founders never considered the possibility of a president disbanding a modern federal agency because they didn't think such large agencies would exist. They tried to reserve most power for the states. And if they had known the modern federal government could become so big, they would support shutting it down. The president is meant to act as a check on Congressional spending too.
  - tootie 2y ago
    They also couldn't envision women voting. The president has veto power over the budget. That is their check on spending. They absolutely positively do not have any authority to cancel a Congressional appropriation and they never have. You know what else the founders definitely did not envision? A standing federal army. Trump is honor bound to the soul of George Washington to disband the DoD and reclaim $800B. Surely that is 100% his prerogative and nobody has any right to stop him.

tootie 2y ago

There is no way in hell the founders thought a president could unilaterally disassemble an entire agency that was explicitly empowered by Congress. Thomas Jefferson didn't want to buy ships. He didn't try to disband the Navy. And it's possible the SC would have stopped him if Congress had the will. There is not a long history of impoundment being a major tool of executive authority. When Nixon tried to shut down multiple programs within an agency, he was shot down in court and Congress passed a law delineating exactly what he could and could not do. There is no reason to think that law runs afoul of the Constitution. Article 1 does not grant any right to impoundment. The actions of past presidents aren't precedent or else (in the case of Jefferson) we'd still have slavery. If you disagree, please type the words: "The President can unilaterally disband a federal agency empowered by Congress whenever he wants for whatever reason he wants and no one can stop him". Because that is what you are implying.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
leereeves 2y ago
I think it's clear that the founders never considered the possibility of a president disbanding a modern federal agency because they didn't think such large agencies would exist. They tried to reserve most power for the states. And if they had known the modern federal government could become so big, they would support shutting it down. The president is meant to act as a check on Congressional spending too.
- tootie 2y ago
  They also couldn't envision women voting. The president has veto power over the budget. That is their check on spending. They absolutely positively do not have any authority to cancel a Congressional appropriation and they never have. You know what else the founders definitely did not envision? A standing federal army. Trump is honor bound to the soul of George Washington to disband the DoD and reclaim $800B. Surely that is 100% his prerogative and nobody has any right to stop him.