5 ms·

I do not think the government should target specific people for their political beliefs, otherwise how can people fairly determine their own beliefs and vote fo

I do not think the government should target specific people for their political beliefs, otherwise how can people fairly determine their own beliefs and vote for them

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Illegal acts and a robust, documented history of lies are not political beliefs. They are facts. You are conflating persecution with accountability. His politics are his beliefs, his actions are what he does, what the facts are, and what the consequences are based on for said actions and facts. For sure, for someone who is never held accountable, accountability is tyranny.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  In what way is an exclusion from an EV credit the result of some neutral proceeding of law or prosecution? frankly, i am not interested in a government that punishes 'lies' in this way. the government should not be in the business of making people "accountable" for their bad politics. accountability for illegal actions proceeds through the courts. we are not a banana republic, although i increasingly worry
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    > In what way is an exclusion from an EV credit the result of some neutral proceeding of law or prosecution? I am unsure why you believe legislation requires due process. Musk and Tesla have no rights to state EV tax credits. States are not obligated to be "fair." They could exclude Musk and his controlled entities from financial support simply because they want to. They could even revert any laws allowing Tesla to sell vehicles without dealers. "State's rights." > frankly, i am not interested in a government that punishes 'lies' in this way. the government should not be in the business of making people "accountable" for their bad politics. accountability for illegal actions proceeds through the courts. Then we are at an impasse, and can only observe or assist the gears turning to reach desired outcomes. > we are not a banana republic, although i increasingly worry We aren't? A private citizen preventing Congress from access to federal property and violating various laws to obtain and control access to a core government value transfer system isn't? The executive branch enabling a "special employee" to "delete" agencies when they have no authority to do so? The FBI turning over records of who prosecuted J6 insurrectionists for retaliation against civil servants for doing their job? Respectfully, we have "crossed the Rubicon" already. I understand belief systems, which are rigid, will likely prevent meeting in the middle on this topic. With that said, I believe facts (like character) always matter. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=elon&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... Rubio says El Salvador offers to accept deportees from US of any nationality, including Americans - https://apnews.com/article/migration-rubio-panama-colombia-venezuela-237f06b7d4bdd9ff1396baf9c45a2c0b https://apnews.com/article/migration-rubio-panama-colombia-v... DOGE Employees Ordered to Stop Using Slack While Agency Transitions to Records System That Is Not Subject to FOIA - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42951458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42951458 - Feb 2025 FBI turns over details of 5000 employees who worked on January 6 cases - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42949784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42949784 - Feb 2025 Congressional Research Service: USAID Under the Trump Administration - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42941591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42941591 - Feb 2025
    - asacrowflies 2y ago
      Well said and civil. And sourced. Better than I could do. Cheers
taylodl 2y ago
Musk isn't being targeted for beliefs, he's being targeted for actions. There's a substantial difference between those concepts.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  what actions? and why is an EV credit bill the appropriate vehicle to do so, rather than say.. the court system?
  - taylodl 2y ago
    What actions? You can't be serious! And courts are for crimes. The crimes Musk is currently committing is at the behest of Trump and, unless we follow the precedent set at Nuremberg, Trump is responsible for those crimes. Even so, the courts can't do anything about it because the legislature is responsible for trying the Chief Executive. Is the EV credit bill the appropriate vehicle to get Musk to reconsider his actions? All I can say is it's a vehicle. I'm not a member of the legislature and I don't play one on TV. It appears Musk was poorly raised and never taught there are consequences to actions, even if you're free to perform the action. As a matter of fact, it seems like a lot of people never learned that important life lesson.
    - whimsicalism 2y ago
      when did politics become like this.. nuremberg? the nazis killed 6m, i feel like you are living in a parallel reality > never taught there are consequences to actions, even if you're free to perform the action you are not free to perform an action if the government punishes you for performing that action
      - taylodl 2y ago
        Other citizens may punish you for your actions. For example, a large number of people are no longer buying Teslas because of Musk's actions. As far as government creating regulations affecting Musk, well, Musk thumbed his nose to government regulations and showed his ass. What, the wittle baby can't take what he dishes out? How lame!
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
This type of abusive lawfare is exactly why democrats lost this election.

I do not think the government should target specific people for their political beliefs, otherwise how can people fairly determine their own beliefs and vote for them

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Illegal acts and a robust, documented history of lies are not political beliefs. They are facts. You are conflating persecution with accountability. His politics are his beliefs, his actions are what he does, what the facts are, and what the consequences are based on for said actions and facts. For sure, for someone who is never held accountable, accountability is tyranny.

whimsicalism 2y ago
In what way is an exclusion from an EV credit the result of some neutral proceeding of law or prosecution? frankly, i am not interested in a government that punishes 'lies' in this way. the government should not be in the business of making people "accountable" for their bad politics. accountability for illegal actions proceeds through the courts. we are not a banana republic, although i increasingly worry
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  > In what way is an exclusion from an EV credit the result of some neutral proceeding of law or prosecution? I am unsure why you believe legislation requires due process. Musk and Tesla have no rights to state EV tax credits. States are not obligated to be "fair." They could exclude Musk and his controlled entities from financial support simply because they want to. They could even revert any laws allowing Tesla to sell vehicles without dealers. "State's rights." > frankly, i am not interested in a government that punishes 'lies' in this way. the government should not be in the business of making people "accountable" for their bad politics. accountability for illegal actions proceeds through the courts. Then we are at an impasse, and can only observe or assist the gears turning to reach desired outcomes. > we are not a banana republic, although i increasingly worry We aren't? A private citizen preventing Congress from access to federal property and violating various laws to obtain and control access to a core government value transfer system isn't? The executive branch enabling a "special employee" to "delete" agencies when they have no authority to do so? The FBI turning over records of who prosecuted J6 insurrectionists for retaliation against civil servants for doing their job? Respectfully, we have "crossed the Rubicon" already. I understand belief systems, which are rigid, will likely prevent meeting in the middle on this topic. With that said, I believe facts (like character) always matter. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=elon&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... Rubio says El Salvador offers to accept deportees from US of any nationality, including Americans - https://apnews.com/article/migration-rubio-panama-colombia-venezuela-237f06b7d4bdd9ff1396baf9c45a2c0b https://apnews.com/article/migration-rubio-panama-colombia-v... DOGE Employees Ordered to Stop Using Slack While Agency Transitions to Records System That Is Not Subject to FOIA - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42951458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42951458 - Feb 2025 FBI turns over details of 5000 employees who worked on January 6 cases - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42949784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42949784 - Feb 2025 Congressional Research Service: USAID Under the Trump Administration - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42941591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42941591 - Feb 2025
  - asacrowflies 2y ago
    Well said and civil. And sourced. Better than I could do. Cheers

taylodl 2y ago

Musk isn't being targeted for beliefs, he's being targeted for actions. There's a substantial difference between those concepts.

whimsicalism 2y ago
what actions? and why is an EV credit bill the appropriate vehicle to do so, rather than say.. the court system?
- taylodl 2y ago
  What actions? You can't be serious! And courts are for crimes. The crimes Musk is currently committing is at the behest of Trump and, unless we follow the precedent set at Nuremberg, Trump is responsible for those crimes. Even so, the courts can't do anything about it because the legislature is responsible for trying the Chief Executive. Is the EV credit bill the appropriate vehicle to get Musk to reconsider his actions? All I can say is it's a vehicle. I'm not a member of the legislature and I don't play one on TV. It appears Musk was poorly raised and never taught there are consequences to actions, even if you're free to perform the action. As a matter of fact, it seems like a lot of people never learned that important life lesson.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    when did politics become like this.. nuremberg? the nazis killed 6m, i feel like you are living in a parallel reality > never taught there are consequences to actions, even if you're free to perform the action you are not free to perform an action if the government punishes you for performing that action
    - taylodl 2y ago
      Other citizens may punish you for your actions. For example, a large number of people are no longer buying Teslas because of Musk's actions. As far as government creating regulations affecting Musk, well, Musk thumbed his nose to government regulations and showed his ass. What, the wittle baby can't take what he dishes out? How lame!

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

This type of abusive lawfare is exactly why democrats lost this election.