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On the issue of whether Musk is allowed to review functions that he has a conflict with, he has only stated that Musk is not allowed to do so.

ceejayoz 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements_by_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements... This is a man who sharpies extra lines onto weather maps so he doesn't have to say "whoops, made a mistake in my tweet". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alabama_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alaba...
- scarab92 2y ago
  Okay, but the evidence on the other side, the evidence that Musk is enriching himself... is ... what exactly? speculation?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    To be clear, "is there evidence the world's richest person has a profit motivation behind his sudden interest in unpaid public service" is your question?
    - scarab92 2y ago
      Yes, though I wouldn't call his interest in public policy sudden. If we're honest this is all just unfounded speculation. Financially, he's likely going to benefit from a deregulatory agenda, but is it enough to offset his investments to get Trump elected (buying Twitter, America PAC)? Who knows Is his work at USAID in any way related to his financial outcomes? Who knows Would he make just as much sitting on the couch while the republicans do their thing? Probably Does he even care about making more money, given he's got more than he can possibly spend already? Who knows. If I were to guess, he's at a point in his life where money isn't his main motivator, and instead he's seeking to make an impact.
      - danorama 2y ago
        “he's at a point in his life where money isn't his main motivator” It seems pretty clear by now that this never happens with billionaires.
        scarab92 2y ago
        Jeff Bezos is chilling on yachts and tinkering with rockets. Bill Gates is giving his money away to charity as quickly as he can do while maintaining effectiveness. Sergey Brin is goofing around with airships. Plenty of examples of billionaries living life rather than focusing on making more money.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > Jeff Bezos is ... tinkering with rockets. With the goal of making money. > Bill Gates is giving his money away to charity as quickly as he can do while maintaining effectiveness. Perhaps the best example here, but he's still working quite a bit to make money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BENlabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BENlabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Energy > Sergey Brin is goofing around with airships. With the goal of making money.
  - svachalek 2y ago
    The standard is to remove all possibility and/or appearance of conflict of interest. "Some guy gave me control of all the money and said I shouldn't take any for myself" is so far below this standard it's comical.
    - scarab92 2y ago
      Firstly, someone ultimately has to have control of agency spendng, so that cannot be deemed a conflict of interest by itself. Secondly, I don't believe Musk has any direct authority to make any changes within these agencies whatsoever. DOGE is only permitted to review agency operations and make recommendations, not to execute them. The changes that are being attributed to Musk, are perhaps being done at his recommendation, but there is an agency director signing off on all of this.
  - kergonath 2y ago
    Musk owes quite a lot of his virtual fortune to government subsidies. That alone should prevent him from being anywhere near the government. The appearance of impropriety is corrosive because it undermines public trust in the government. You don’t need improper actions to be in a conflict of interest. We also know that he has no moral compass and no qualm whatsoever using any lever he can to make money. The moment to worry about this is before he leaves with the till. Because everyone knows he will, and by then it will be too late.
    - scarab92 2y ago
      > We also know that he has no moral compass and no qualm whatsoever using any lever he can to make money. We don't know that. Musk has several times lobbied against EV subsidies which would directly benefit Tesla, because he viewed the subsidies as excessive.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > Musk has several times lobbied against EV subsidies which would directly benefit Tesla, because he viewed the subsidies as excessive. Of course he wants to kneecap his emerging competitors in the space. Same technique OpenAI is using with advocating for AI regulation.
rbanffy 2y ago
And we believe that because Trump never lies.
dingnuts 2y ago
when Congress approved DOGE what did they say? want to link to the LEGISLATION that authorizes Trump and Musk to do this?
- scarab92 2y ago
  It was created by executive order, not congress. You can find the executive order on the whitehouse website. Technically it's a renaming of the USDS
ceejayoz 2y ago
Good news: you’re right! Bad news: this limitation will be enforced by… Musk himself. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-05/white-house-says-musk-will-police-his-own-conflicts-of-interest https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-05/white-hou... > The White House said Elon Musk, the billionaire leading President Donald Trump’s government cost-cutting efforts, will determine if there are conflicts of interest between his work reviewing federal spending and his overlapping empire of six companies.

ceejayoz 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements_by_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements... This is a man who sharpies extra lines onto weather maps so he doesn't have to say "whoops, made a mistake in my tweet". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alabama_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alaba...

scarab92 2y ago
Okay, but the evidence on the other side, the evidence that Musk is enriching himself... is ... what exactly? speculation?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  To be clear, "is there evidence the world's richest person has a profit motivation behind his sudden interest in unpaid public service" is your question?
  - scarab92 2y ago
    Yes, though I wouldn't call his interest in public policy sudden. If we're honest this is all just unfounded speculation. Financially, he's likely going to benefit from a deregulatory agenda, but is it enough to offset his investments to get Trump elected (buying Twitter, America PAC)? Who knows Is his work at USAID in any way related to his financial outcomes? Who knows Would he make just as much sitting on the couch while the republicans do their thing? Probably Does he even care about making more money, given he's got more than he can possibly spend already? Who knows. If I were to guess, he's at a point in his life where money isn't his main motivator, and instead he's seeking to make an impact.
    - danorama 2y ago
      “he's at a point in his life where money isn't his main motivator” It seems pretty clear by now that this never happens with billionaires.
      - scarab92 2y ago
        Jeff Bezos is chilling on yachts and tinkering with rockets. Bill Gates is giving his money away to charity as quickly as he can do while maintaining effectiveness. Sergey Brin is goofing around with airships. Plenty of examples of billionaries living life rather than focusing on making more money.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > Jeff Bezos is ... tinkering with rockets. With the goal of making money. > Bill Gates is giving his money away to charity as quickly as he can do while maintaining effectiveness. Perhaps the best example here, but he's still working quite a bit to make money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BENlabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BENlabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Energy > Sergey Brin is goofing around with airships. With the goal of making money.
- svachalek 2y ago
  The standard is to remove all possibility and/or appearance of conflict of interest. "Some guy gave me control of all the money and said I shouldn't take any for myself" is so far below this standard it's comical.
  - scarab92 2y ago
    Firstly, someone ultimately has to have control of agency spendng, so that cannot be deemed a conflict of interest by itself. Secondly, I don't believe Musk has any direct authority to make any changes within these agencies whatsoever. DOGE is only permitted to review agency operations and make recommendations, not to execute them. The changes that are being attributed to Musk, are perhaps being done at his recommendation, but there is an agency director signing off on all of this.
- kergonath 2y ago
  Musk owes quite a lot of his virtual fortune to government subsidies. That alone should prevent him from being anywhere near the government. The appearance of impropriety is corrosive because it undermines public trust in the government. You don’t need improper actions to be in a conflict of interest. We also know that he has no moral compass and no qualm whatsoever using any lever he can to make money. The moment to worry about this is before he leaves with the till. Because everyone knows he will, and by then it will be too late.
  - scarab92 2y ago
    > We also know that he has no moral compass and no qualm whatsoever using any lever he can to make money. We don't know that. Musk has several times lobbied against EV subsidies which would directly benefit Tesla, because he viewed the subsidies as excessive.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > Musk has several times lobbied against EV subsidies which would directly benefit Tesla, because he viewed the subsidies as excessive. Of course he wants to kneecap his emerging competitors in the space. Same technique OpenAI is using with advocating for AI regulation.

rbanffy 2y ago

And we believe that because Trump never lies.

dingnuts 2y ago

when Congress approved DOGE what did they say? want to link to the LEGISLATION that authorizes Trump and Musk to do this?

scarab92 2y ago
It was created by executive order, not congress. You can find the executive order on the whitehouse website. Technically it's a renaming of the USDS

ceejayoz 2y ago

Good news: you’re right! Bad news: this limitation will be enforced by… Musk himself. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-05/white-house-says-musk-will-police-his-own-conflicts-of-interest https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-05/white-hou... > The White House said Elon Musk, the billionaire leading President Donald Trump’s government cost-cutting efforts, will determine if there are conflicts of interest between his work reviewing federal spending and his overlapping empire of six companies.