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None of my software-engineer friends are doing things they don't want to do. That would be remarkable. That would mean that the solution to an optimization pr

by pfedor 14y ago

None of my software-engineer friends are doing things they don't want to do. That would be remarkable. That would mean that the solution to an optimization problem without constraints ("Of all the things I could be doing, which will make me the happiest?") is the same as to a corresponding problem with an extra constraint ("Of all the things I could be doing that also bring enough money to pay the mortgage, which will make me the happiest?") It doesn't often happen in life that adding an extra constraint, especially one that limits the space of possible solutions so drastically, doesn't change the solution. No doubt there exist people like that, but it seems unlikely that it would be true for all of your friends. They probably just put on an act which is expected in this kind of environment, and you naively take it at face value.

nostrademons 14y ago
It's a different way of thinking about the problem. Most of my friends are not trying to optimize their life. Instead, life happens. The way to be happy is...to be happy, to change the things that you can change that make you unhappy, and accept everything else and not worry about it. It's not an act any more than you choosing to view the world through the lens of an optimization problem is an act. You can't really judge what someone's desires are - just because they don't desire what you desire doesn't make it wrong. Reminds me of something a girl I once dated once told me. We were talking about a mutual friend of ours, someone who (like me) tends to view everything through a hyper-logical lens and treat it as an optimization problem, and she said something along the lines of, "I can't read anything he writes. It's like everything has to follow logically from some past premise, but he doesn't realize that not everyone starts from the same assumptions as him. How can you relate to someone like that?" FWIW, I've thought like that for much of my life (which is perhaps why said girl and I are not together), so I do understand what you're saying. I'm trying to point out that it's possible for people to genuinely be happy doing whatever they're doing, at least until something better comes along. And I'll go out on a limb and say that most people think like that, and the type of achievement-driven, believes-they'll-be-fulfilled-if-they-had-$10M mindset is overrepresented on HN. (BTW, people generally tend to associate with others of similar worldviews - remember my date's comment of "How can you relate to someone like that?" - which is why the bulk of my friends are perfectly happy doing whatever they do, and perhaps the bulk of your friends are always striving for something better.) (It probably also helps that there're lots of jobs available for Xooglers in Silicon Valley, and that category is already fairly self-selecting for people who enjoy programming, so the universe of "things I enjoy doing that will pay the mortgage" is quite large.)
- pfedor 14y ago
  I phrased the thought that way, but that doesn't mean that only hyper-logical people feel like that and everyone else agrees with you. Quite the opposite: most people would think you're crazy if you suggested that they want to go to the office in the morning rather than say spend the day chilling out by the pool. It's precisely the software engineers from Silicon Valley who more often embrace the flavor of denial you are advocating. What you said about being happy is no doubt true, but so what. No doubt there were happy slaves and unhappy kings. Did the happy slaves not do things they didn't want to?

by pfedor 14y ago

nostrademons 14y ago

It's a different way of thinking about the problem. Most of my friends are not trying to optimize their life. Instead, life happens. The way to be happy is...to be happy, to change the things that you can change that make you unhappy, and accept everything else and not worry about it. It's not an act any more than you choosing to view the world through the lens of an optimization problem is an act. You can't really judge what someone's desires are - just because they don't desire what you desire doesn't make it wrong. Reminds me of something a girl I once dated once told me. We were talking about a mutual friend of ours, someone who (like me) tends to view everything through a hyper-logical lens and treat it as an optimization problem, and she said something along the lines of, "I can't read anything he writes. It's like everything has to follow logically from some past premise, but he doesn't realize that not everyone starts from the same assumptions as him. How can you relate to someone like that?" FWIW, I've thought like that for much of my life (which is perhaps why said girl and I are not together), so I do understand what you're saying. I'm trying to point out that it's possible for people to genuinely be happy doing whatever they're doing, at least until something better comes along. And I'll go out on a limb and say that most people think like that, and the type of achievement-driven, believes-they'll-be-fulfilled-if-they-had-$10M mindset is overrepresented on HN. (BTW, people generally tend to associate with others of similar worldviews - remember my date's comment of "How can you relate to someone like that?" - which is why the bulk of my friends are perfectly happy doing whatever they do, and perhaps the bulk of your friends are always striving for something better.) (It probably also helps that there're lots of jobs available for Xooglers in Silicon Valley, and that category is already fairly self-selecting for people who enjoy programming, so the universe of "things I enjoy doing that will pay the mortgage" is quite large.)

pfedor 14y ago
I phrased the thought that way, but that doesn't mean that only hyper-logical people feel like that and everyone else agrees with you. Quite the opposite: most people would think you're crazy if you suggested that they want to go to the office in the morning rather than say spend the day chilling out by the pool. It's precisely the software engineers from Silicon Valley who more often embrace the flavor of denial you are advocating. What you said about being happy is no doubt true, but so what. No doubt there were happy slaves and unhappy kings. Did the happy slaves not do things they didn't want to?