4 ms·

You could have just condensed this down to: democrats bad and only their fault. Because if people in the middle can be so damn gullible to vote for a criminal

by 0dayz 2y ago

You could have just condensed this down to: democrats bad and only their fault. Because if people in the middle can be so damn gullible to vote for a criminal who said: "I don't care about you, I only want your votes", like Trump because he promised good economy I don't know how anyone can conclude that the issue here is with democrats and not the people's lack of critical thinking. It's a bit late to correctly point out that focusing on demographics as you voter base is stupid and that it's interest groups you should focus on (as this should've been done in 2008 after Obama's victory), because this isn't a race between two sane candidates.

scarab92 2y ago
> a criminal, lie, swindle and rig puller like Trump > voter base is stupid > facist, nazi, coup Name calling typically results in people viewing you as immature. If the left ever want to reclaim the respect of voters, they need to lose this bad habit.
- 0dayz 2y ago
  Those are descriptions not names. The left don't have to any soul searching to do when again the so called middle literally voted for a man who to their face told them that he doesn't care about them he just wants their votes, who yes is a criminal that has swindled, lied and now rug pulled.
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    Well if the left wants to lead, it should never stop doing soul searching. Why not ask ourselves, "What have we done that may have contributed to people in our lives wanting to support such vengeful behaviors? How might have we and other people like us hurt these people over the years?"
    - intended 2y ago
      But name calling works goddamit! Why shouldnt everyone do that?? Trump is 100% about names, holy shit. I think the left needs to get better at name calling, and match the winning strategy. Maybe it needs to keep coming up with new funny names. TO be serious - nthing the left does will likely work, because they have to somehow appeal to everyone. Be polite and strong, firm and flexible, forgiving and retributive. Basically a unicorn.
      - jimkleiber 2y ago
        Maybe won't work in the short term but can work in the long teem
      - mrguyorama 2y ago
        When the left called the right "weird" that had more effect at driving liberal enthusiasm than any PDF of a policy ever has. Because it worked pretty well. One problem is that the "left" has NO media at all. Republicans opt in to a completely controlled media platform, on Truth Social which is owned by Trump, on Fox News which multiple times has had to argue in court that nobody would take anything they say seriously, and also was knowingly lying to their audience, on AM radio which is used to yell at you 24/7 about how the dems are going to destroy you ANY DAY NOW, on Joe Rogan the podcast viewed by a hundred million people as it talks about how oppressed and cancelled it is and also if Biden said that it's evidence of brain damage but if Trump said that he didn't mean it, on our local news which is bought and paid for by a conglomerate that contractually obligates it's stations to pretend they came up with a story on their own and run identical pieces all across the country about how "damaging to our democracy" democrats are". What do liberals have to push whatever message they want pushed? Reddit? Nah, it's half dead, most activity is literally bots reposting year old threads comment for comment to build up karma, it has the cultural pull of HN if HN didn't have YC behind it. Facebook? You can call people mentally disabled on there now for the crime of being born with genitals that don't match your brain. CNN? Give me a break. Nobody has trusted CNN since at least the original gulf wars. After that Malaysian airlines plane vanished they asked a aviation expert if it could have been a black hole that swallowed up the plane. They were bought recently by new people, who want to be more pro Trump, mostly because it's just outright more profitable. People watched more CNN during Trump's first term because shit was always being broken, while nobody watched during Biden's term, because nobody expected biden to do anything. MSNBC? Weirdly popular with "liberal" celebrities and hollywood, but nobody on the east coast cares about it. Even on a good day it has HALF the viewership of Fox News. It's also more like "Laugh at republicans doing stupid things" than actually about liberal policy. MSNBC will tell you that what Trump is doing is illegal, but they wont comprehensively explain why Liberals and progressives don't seem to be even remotely as willing to opt in to a purposely ideological media stream. I guess AOC does well when she goes on twitch, but even on that platform, the big """leftist""" streamer is a bad person and Noam Chomksy style "america bad" concern troll, and there are multiple much more popular streamers who teach literal children that if video games don't have hyper exaggerated overly sexualized anime women in them, they're "woke". The "I'm a child who likes video games, I'm going to watch video game content" to "I hate women" pipeline is truly insane. Even the people who are part of it don't seem to understand the part they are playing. A group of 12 year old boys met one of their favorite streamers from the Fresh and Fit podcast, and after getting a selfie with him, chanted "I hate women, kill all women", as the podcaster went "what, no no don't hate women!" 90% of the Fresh and Fit podcast is the hosts, men, complaining about how women are inherently less rational than men, complaining that women overreact, complaining that women are shallow on a podcast ostensibly about "gains", bringing very very drunk women on to argue with them about, anything, and shouting them down if the women try to make a point, and threatening them with legal action if they argue too much by claiming the women (who have been invited onto the show) are "trespassing", complaining that women are less accepting of outright facts than men like the fact "women are inherently less rational than men", complaining that women are whores and use sex as a weapon... But he had a shocked pikachu face when his 12 year old fan said he hates women.
    - 0dayz 2y ago
      You're more than welcome citing where I stated the left should never do any soul searching, I specifically said that when it comes to people being so gullible to vote for Trump despite his character is no argument for democrats having to do any soul searching because there is nothing to be reflecting about that.
      - jimkleiber 2y ago
        Yes and im saying if we have people we love in our lives who were gullible to that, should we give up on them or fight harder to love them? I choose the latter and that requires me to do soul searching, of mine and theirs.
        0dayz 2y ago
        Please actually read what I wrote because you say that, but at the same time you've now twice projected assumed positions of mine that only would make sense in your mind if I was some progressive liberal stereotype. Because no, I have never said that I would ignore those gullible people. Ontop of this I fail to see what supposed soul searching we need to do, for example if I believe in free speech and the gullible voter voted for a president because they promised to flattered them while also promising to remove free speech and jail anyone who speak unfavorablely about them. Or how about a real example, what soul searching did the republicans have to do when the south seceed? Or how about the social democrats, liberals and the few conservatives who were executed by the nazis, they should've have been more antisemitic? While Hitler took control via technicality rules?
        jimkleiber 2y ago
        What I'm saying is that it sounds like you're saying there's nothing people can do, that it's other people's behaviors that need to change, that nothing we can do will change their behaviors regarding this specific instance. Is that what you're saying? That it is the other people's responsibility to fix this, not ours?
        2y ago
- lame-robot-hoax 2y ago
  > Name calling typically results in people viewing you as immature. If this was true, Trump wouldn’t be president. Either that, or America doesn’t see an issue with immaturity.
  - scarab92 2y ago
    This is going to sound partisan, but I genuinely think it’s because Trump connects with people on more levels than the Democrats do. The name calling is part of his blustery comedic Hollywood side, which people understand is different to his policy making side. Watch the all-in podcast episode with him if you genuinely want to see a different side to him. In contrast, Democrats often come across as only having a singular serious facet to their personality, and so immaturity undermines their entire character.
    - tremendoussss 2y ago
      I have the same perspective. On top of it, society has gotten use to seeing reality TV shows. DC looks like a reality TV show for ugly people to them. It's not even done well.
    - ziml77 2y ago
      Whatever different side you are seeing is the act, the name calling is part of his normal behavior. I don't want to say too much, but I have a family member who had to deal with Trump briefly in the 00s. From the things I heard back then, I know for sure that he tries to bully people to get what he wants and will end up shouting threats if things don't go his way.
    - hobs 2y ago
      Hey look its the goal posts whizzing by...
      - intended 2y ago
        Right!! It goes from "its the lefts fault, and maybe you shouldnt call people Nazi." To "It works for Trump!" to "trump connects to people. the left doesnt" Lol. This is like when you are in an abusive relationship, and you are always wrong, and theres no real way to explain why you are always wrong - until you accept that one side is meant to be the loser in an abusive realtion.
- xocnad 2y ago
  What about the right? Trump is a champion name caller and garnered sufficient respect to win his election after he pushed our country to the closest it ever has been to an actual coup.
  - tremendoussss 2y ago
    Continuing the immaturity is also usually seen as immature
    - xocnad 2y ago
      Certainly. But the argument that the name calling has to stop to win the respect of voters is fatally flawed based on the last election.
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  I agree. Both sides need to stop calling names, but more deeply, need to see the goodness in the other side (and in ourselves). The problem can be, someone can feel attacked even if the other person is treating them in a very kind and loving way, because they think it's fake. On the contrary, someone could receive verbal and physical abuse and still not feel attacked because they maintain faith in their and the other person's good intentions. So I think it's more about changing the behaviors of the person on the receiving end than on the giving end.
  - tremendoussss 2y ago
    I agree with you in spirit. Everyone is equally responsible on "how" they communicate. When the giving side is coming from a place of contempt and disgust, the work for improvement shouldn't be trivialized.
    - jimkleiber 2y ago
      But the receiving side can also get better at receiving contempt and disgust and realizing the pain the other person is going through. Honestly, working on how to receive punches has helped me so much in my life. An ex-girlfriend of mine lied to me about being pregnant (I think). And at first, I was furious. Then I realized that if she were to lie about that, she must have been going through so much pain, and I probably did something to contribute to that pain. I apologized to her and felt a lot better and it also allowed me to regain trust in women again, maybe even deepening my trust.
      - Jerrrry 2y ago
        [dead]
      - greentxt 2y ago
        But you didn't marry her.
        jimkleiber 2y ago

by 0dayz 2y ago

scarab92 2y ago

> a criminal, lie, swindle and rig puller like Trump > voter base is stupid > facist, nazi, coup Name calling typically results in people viewing you as immature. If the left ever want to reclaim the respect of voters, they need to lose this bad habit.

0dayz 2y ago
Those are descriptions not names. The left don't have to any soul searching to do when again the so called middle literally voted for a man who to their face told them that he doesn't care about them he just wants their votes, who yes is a criminal that has swindled, lied and now rug pulled.
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  Well if the left wants to lead, it should never stop doing soul searching. Why not ask ourselves, "What have we done that may have contributed to people in our lives wanting to support such vengeful behaviors? How might have we and other people like us hurt these people over the years?"
  - intended 2y ago
    But name calling works goddamit! Why shouldnt everyone do that?? Trump is 100% about names, holy shit. I think the left needs to get better at name calling, and match the winning strategy. Maybe it needs to keep coming up with new funny names. TO be serious - nthing the left does will likely work, because they have to somehow appeal to everyone. Be polite and strong, firm and flexible, forgiving and retributive. Basically a unicorn.
    - jimkleiber 2y ago
      Maybe won't work in the short term but can work in the long teem
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      When the left called the right "weird" that had more effect at driving liberal enthusiasm than any PDF of a policy ever has. Because it worked pretty well. One problem is that the "left" has NO media at all. Republicans opt in to a completely controlled media platform, on Truth Social which is owned by Trump, on Fox News which multiple times has had to argue in court that nobody would take anything they say seriously, and also was knowingly lying to their audience, on AM radio which is used to yell at you 24/7 about how the dems are going to destroy you ANY DAY NOW, on Joe Rogan the podcast viewed by a hundred million people as it talks about how oppressed and cancelled it is and also if Biden said that it's evidence of brain damage but if Trump said that he didn't mean it, on our local news which is bought and paid for by a conglomerate that contractually obligates it's stations to pretend they came up with a story on their own and run identical pieces all across the country about how "damaging to our democracy" democrats are". What do liberals have to push whatever message they want pushed? Reddit? Nah, it's half dead, most activity is literally bots reposting year old threads comment for comment to build up karma, it has the cultural pull of HN if HN didn't have YC behind it. Facebook? You can call people mentally disabled on there now for the crime of being born with genitals that don't match your brain. CNN? Give me a break. Nobody has trusted CNN since at least the original gulf wars. After that Malaysian airlines plane vanished they asked a aviation expert if it could have been a black hole that swallowed up the plane. They were bought recently by new people, who want to be more pro Trump, mostly because it's just outright more profitable. People watched more CNN during Trump's first term because shit was always being broken, while nobody watched during Biden's term, because nobody expected biden to do anything. MSNBC? Weirdly popular with "liberal" celebrities and hollywood, but nobody on the east coast cares about it. Even on a good day it has HALF the viewership of Fox News. It's also more like "Laugh at republicans doing stupid things" than actually about liberal policy. MSNBC will tell you that what Trump is doing is illegal, but they wont comprehensively explain why Liberals and progressives don't seem to be even remotely as willing to opt in to a purposely ideological media stream. I guess AOC does well when she goes on twitch, but even on that platform, the big """leftist""" streamer is a bad person and Noam Chomksy style "america bad" concern troll, and there are multiple much more popular streamers who teach literal children that if video games don't have hyper exaggerated overly sexualized anime women in them, they're "woke". The "I'm a child who likes video games, I'm going to watch video game content" to "I hate women" pipeline is truly insane. Even the people who are part of it don't seem to understand the part they are playing. A group of 12 year old boys met one of their favorite streamers from the Fresh and Fit podcast, and after getting a selfie with him, chanted "I hate women, kill all women", as the podcaster went "what, no no don't hate women!" 90% of the Fresh and Fit podcast is the hosts, men, complaining about how women are inherently less rational than men, complaining that women overreact, complaining that women are shallow on a podcast ostensibly about "gains", bringing very very drunk women on to argue with them about, anything, and shouting them down if the women try to make a point, and threatening them with legal action if they argue too much by claiming the women (who have been invited onto the show) are "trespassing", complaining that women are less accepting of outright facts than men like the fact "women are inherently less rational than men", complaining that women are whores and use sex as a weapon... But he had a shocked pikachu face when his 12 year old fan said he hates women.
  - 0dayz 2y ago
    You're more than welcome citing where I stated the left should never do any soul searching, I specifically said that when it comes to people being so gullible to vote for Trump despite his character is no argument for democrats having to do any soul searching because there is nothing to be reflecting about that.
    - jimkleiber 2y ago
      Yes and im saying if we have people we love in our lives who were gullible to that, should we give up on them or fight harder to love them? I choose the latter and that requires me to do soul searching, of mine and theirs.
      - 0dayz 2y ago
        Please actually read what I wrote because you say that, but at the same time you've now twice projected assumed positions of mine that only would make sense in your mind if I was some progressive liberal stereotype. Because no, I have never said that I would ignore those gullible people. Ontop of this I fail to see what supposed soul searching we need to do, for example if I believe in free speech and the gullible voter voted for a president because they promised to flattered them while also promising to remove free speech and jail anyone who speak unfavorablely about them. Or how about a real example, what soul searching did the republicans have to do when the south seceed? Or how about the social democrats, liberals and the few conservatives who were executed by the nazis, they should've have been more antisemitic? While Hitler took control via technicality rules?
        jimkleiber 2y ago
        What I'm saying is that it sounds like you're saying there's nothing people can do, that it's other people's behaviors that need to change, that nothing we can do will change their behaviors regarding this specific instance. Is that what you're saying? That it is the other people's responsibility to fix this, not ours?
        2y ago
lame-robot-hoax 2y ago
> Name calling typically results in people viewing you as immature. If this was true, Trump wouldn’t be president. Either that, or America doesn’t see an issue with immaturity.
- scarab92 2y ago
  This is going to sound partisan, but I genuinely think it’s because Trump connects with people on more levels than the Democrats do. The name calling is part of his blustery comedic Hollywood side, which people understand is different to his policy making side. Watch the all-in podcast episode with him if you genuinely want to see a different side to him. In contrast, Democrats often come across as only having a singular serious facet to their personality, and so immaturity undermines their entire character.
  - tremendoussss 2y ago
    I have the same perspective. On top of it, society has gotten use to seeing reality TV shows. DC looks like a reality TV show for ugly people to them. It's not even done well.
  - ziml77 2y ago
    Whatever different side you are seeing is the act, the name calling is part of his normal behavior. I don't want to say too much, but I have a family member who had to deal with Trump briefly in the 00s. From the things I heard back then, I know for sure that he tries to bully people to get what he wants and will end up shouting threats if things don't go his way.
  - hobs 2y ago
    Hey look its the goal posts whizzing by...
    - intended 2y ago
      Right!! It goes from "its the lefts fault, and maybe you shouldnt call people Nazi." To "It works for Trump!" to "trump connects to people. the left doesnt" Lol. This is like when you are in an abusive relationship, and you are always wrong, and theres no real way to explain why you are always wrong - until you accept that one side is meant to be the loser in an abusive realtion.
xocnad 2y ago
What about the right? Trump is a champion name caller and garnered sufficient respect to win his election after he pushed our country to the closest it ever has been to an actual coup.
- tremendoussss 2y ago
  Continuing the immaturity is also usually seen as immature
  - xocnad 2y ago
    Certainly. But the argument that the name calling has to stop to win the respect of voters is fatally flawed based on the last election.
jimkleiber 2y ago
I agree. Both sides need to stop calling names, but more deeply, need to see the goodness in the other side (and in ourselves). The problem can be, someone can feel attacked even if the other person is treating them in a very kind and loving way, because they think it's fake. On the contrary, someone could receive verbal and physical abuse and still not feel attacked because they maintain faith in their and the other person's good intentions. So I think it's more about changing the behaviors of the person on the receiving end than on the giving end.
- tremendoussss 2y ago
  I agree with you in spirit. Everyone is equally responsible on "how" they communicate. When the giving side is coming from a place of contempt and disgust, the work for improvement shouldn't be trivialized.
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    But the receiving side can also get better at receiving contempt and disgust and realizing the pain the other person is going through. Honestly, working on how to receive punches has helped me so much in my life. An ex-girlfriend of mine lied to me about being pregnant (I think). And at first, I was furious. Then I realized that if she were to lie about that, she must have been going through so much pain, and I probably did something to contribute to that pain. I apologized to her and felt a lot better and it also allowed me to regain trust in women again, maybe even deepening my trust.
    - Jerrrry 2y ago
      [dead]
    - greentxt 2y ago
      But you didn't marry her.
      - jimkleiber 2y ago