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I remember I once stumbled upon pictures of the daily life of ordinary nazis. They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instr

I remember I once stumbled upon pictures of the daily life of ordinary nazis. They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. There is even a video where hitler is shying away from his love companion. This was a shock to me as a kid: evil doesn't look like the caricature of "the very bad guy", it emerges in every day people. I think we failed to communicate that. It was too tempting to have a universal vilain you could use in Hollywood movies and instantly recognize. That you can't identify to. Black and white is so easy to sell. But what it means is a huge part of our society cannot make the link between what is happening in their own life and the past. Because they have a vision of the past that looks like a kid show, not what really happened. Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. In the last too decades, we surely spent a lot of time playing with words until they could not be useful anymore. But it made us feel good for a moment.

illwrks 2y ago
I’ve not watched it yet, but a recent film called the Zone Of Interest sounds like it aligns to this. It’s about the Hoss family that lived next to one of the Nazi concentration camps, the father/husband ran the camp. Also, I recently watched The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas and it again aligns to that point of view a bit.
- cocoggu 2y ago
  Point to be noted is that Rudolf Hoss wasn't the leader of a random Nazi camp. He was the commandant of the Auschwitz concentration camp, where 1.1 million people were murdered, making him one of the biggest mass-murderer of the last century.
  - illwrks 2y ago
    Apologies, I’m not tuned into the details of the film as it’s on still my witch list. I didn’t want to overstate it just in case I was incorrect.
aisenik 2y ago
> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. Do I understand that while the United States is undergoing a radical neonazi revolution lead by the tech industry your take away is that the people who called out the right-wing and tech industry were wrong to do so and bear responsibility for the horrific state of the world?
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  No, what you should takeaway is that misoverusing the term Nazi as an insult patently no longer works precisely because noone cares about being called a Nazi anymore due to its misoveruse. In a different timeline, Trump being called a Nazi or any of the vicinity terms should have been an immediate termination of his campaign chances. What actually happened is Trump ignored it (as he should) and the American people shrugged "OK" and went to vote for him with complete disregard. Then Musk got called a Nazi at the inauguration, and the American people shrugged "OK" and went back to facepalming at just how much sheer waste the government has with complete disregard. The moral you should take away is you should not invoke Godwin's Law. It's probably too late for "Nazi", "racism", "sexism", and a host of other insults the Left have thrown around to see what sticks (none have), but that doesn't mean future originally-valuable-terminology have to face the same fate. Another moral is that insulting Americans probably doesn't actually work in general. "Deplorables", "Garbage", and others were turned around into rallying cries during the 2016 and 2024 campaigns, not unlike the original meaning behind the term "Yankee" which was originally an insult not unlike "Kraut" or "Jap" but is now one of the fondest nicknames of Americans.
  - aisenik 2y ago
    Trump is a neonazi, openly aligned with American white supremacist militias, attempted a violent coup in 2021, and "the American people" who shrugged "OK" are neonazis. It is the inescapable reality of our present moment, and it has been visible for a very long time. Godwin himself openly endorsed calling Trump a Nazi. My takeaway is exactly the opposite, that not only were people right to call out radical fascist elements and influences in our society, they (we) were wrong to be cowed.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
I don't know if there was intent behind it, but during and after WW2 the nazis and ww2-era Germans were depicted as textbook villains, in media, documentaries, school books, etc, but they did so in a dehumanizing fashion, as in, there were only a few named individuals (Hitler, Goebels, Göring, etc), but a generalised and unified "Them". Which made them completely unrelatable to those that weren't "them", which also opened people up for sleepwalking into facism - as long as they don't look too much like "them", and only when "they" got into power did their true colours reveal, including the caricature of Musk doing a nazi salute. I mean he didn't need to do that, and for the facist takeover it would've been better if he didn't because there's now a strong correlation between the two, but he did at the moment it was too late. I mean it wasn't and isn't too late of course, that's defeatism, people can quickly be removed from power once people get their act together. Jan 6 proved that, and that was a fairly unorganized mob with only a handful actually prepared to arrest / kidnap or do worse to the congresspeople (thinking of the one guy with the tie wraps).
drewm1980 2y ago
Did you read the article? The section about "alarmists" and "troublemakers" is directly relevant to your take on the use of the word "Nazi". Some people have been calling Musk a Nazi for what, a decade? They sounded like alarmists a decade ago, but now he's literally doing Nazi salutes on TV, acting like it's normal.
- hoppyhoppy2 2y ago
  > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that". https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
pjc50 2y ago
You can find similar images from apartheit South Africa and apartheit southern US states before 1970. And in those cases they believe they are happy because of the protective wall of state violence against other humans. There was always what you might call a "particle" of fascism throughout the War on Terror (maintained by both parties! because it was popular with the public!) Things like the unaccountable secret prisons in Gunatanamo or Abu Gharib, or the US sniper who amused himself by randomly murdering hundreds of civilians (eventually convicted .. then pardoned). And then in the war on Gaza everyone (bipartisan) was falling over themselves to say that it was children's own fault for being in the same school as Hamas and that the Israeli government was right to bomb them. Back at home in BLM, everyone stood up for the right of the police to unaccountably murder citizens. Because that power would only be used against bad people, right?
throw0101a 2y ago
> They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. You may wish to watch this movie on the banality of the life of those who ran the concentration camps and who lived next to them: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film)
suraci 2y ago
> They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. the reason for this contradiction is that, in their view, some people are not considered human that's how nazis see jews, how colonizers see natives, how slaveholders see black slaves, how zionists see palestinians
immibis 2y ago
> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. In my experience, most of the people who get accused of being Nazis do turn out to be actual Nazis. Sometimes they are stupid enough to make overt Nazi gestures (e.g. Elon Musk) which is pretty much the only way the average person will accept that someone is a Nazi. Much more frequently they turn out to agree with Nazi ideas such as ethnic cleansing, but do not do the salute, and people will say they're not really a Nazi because they didn't do the salute.
voisin 2y ago
If you haven’t seen it, the 2023 film “The Zone of Interest” is an excellent movie that shows the banality of daily life in the Nazi regime. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film)
noduerme 2y ago
That's exactly why this book is so valuable and important. It shows the link between a happy daily life in a nice clean country (that happens to be at war) and the insane things those people ignored at the same time in order to act normal every day. Once you read it, you will look around at America in a completely different way. Because unlike ignoring something done in the past (slavery, colonization) this is not arguably not the fault of the people pretending normal through it. It's happening in realtime. The thing to look for is the mix of apathy and fear.

illwrks 2y ago

I’ve not watched it yet, but a recent film called the Zone Of Interest sounds like it aligns to this. It’s about the Hoss family that lived next to one of the Nazi concentration camps, the father/husband ran the camp. Also, I recently watched The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas and it again aligns to that point of view a bit.

cocoggu 2y ago
Point to be noted is that Rudolf Hoss wasn't the leader of a random Nazi camp. He was the commandant of the Auschwitz concentration camp, where 1.1 million people were murdered, making him one of the biggest mass-murderer of the last century.
- illwrks 2y ago
  Apologies, I’m not tuned into the details of the film as it’s on still my witch list. I didn’t want to overstate it just in case I was incorrect.

aisenik 2y ago

> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. Do I understand that while the United States is undergoing a radical neonazi revolution lead by the tech industry your take away is that the people who called out the right-wing and tech industry were wrong to do so and bear responsibility for the horrific state of the world?

Dalewyn 2y ago
No, what you should takeaway is that misoverusing the term Nazi as an insult patently no longer works precisely because noone cares about being called a Nazi anymore due to its misoveruse. In a different timeline, Trump being called a Nazi or any of the vicinity terms should have been an immediate termination of his campaign chances. What actually happened is Trump ignored it (as he should) and the American people shrugged "OK" and went to vote for him with complete disregard. Then Musk got called a Nazi at the inauguration, and the American people shrugged "OK" and went back to facepalming at just how much sheer waste the government has with complete disregard. The moral you should take away is you should not invoke Godwin's Law. It's probably too late for "Nazi", "racism", "sexism", and a host of other insults the Left have thrown around to see what sticks (none have), but that doesn't mean future originally-valuable-terminology have to face the same fate. Another moral is that insulting Americans probably doesn't actually work in general. "Deplorables", "Garbage", and others were turned around into rallying cries during the 2016 and 2024 campaigns, not unlike the original meaning behind the term "Yankee" which was originally an insult not unlike "Kraut" or "Jap" but is now one of the fondest nicknames of Americans.
- aisenik 2y ago
  Trump is a neonazi, openly aligned with American white supremacist militias, attempted a violent coup in 2021, and "the American people" who shrugged "OK" are neonazis. It is the inescapable reality of our present moment, and it has been visible for a very long time. Godwin himself openly endorsed calling Trump a Nazi. My takeaway is exactly the opposite, that not only were people right to call out radical fascist elements and influences in our society, they (we) were wrong to be cowed.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

I don't know if there was intent behind it, but during and after WW2 the nazis and ww2-era Germans were depicted as textbook villains, in media, documentaries, school books, etc, but they did so in a dehumanizing fashion, as in, there were only a few named individuals (Hitler, Goebels, Göring, etc), but a generalised and unified "Them". Which made them completely unrelatable to those that weren't "them", which also opened people up for sleepwalking into facism - as long as they don't look too much like "them", and only when "they" got into power did their true colours reveal, including the caricature of Musk doing a nazi salute. I mean he didn't need to do that, and for the facist takeover it would've been better if he didn't because there's now a strong correlation between the two, but he did at the moment it was too late. I mean it wasn't and isn't too late of course, that's defeatism, people can quickly be removed from power once people get their act together. Jan 6 proved that, and that was a fairly unorganized mob with only a handful actually prepared to arrest / kidnap or do worse to the congresspeople (thinking of the one guy with the tie wraps).

drewm1980 2y ago

Did you read the article? The section about "alarmists" and "troublemakers" is directly relevant to your take on the use of the word "Nazi". Some people have been calling Musk a Nazi for what, a decade? They sounded like alarmists a decade ago, but now he's literally doing Nazi salutes on TV, acting like it's normal.

hoppyhoppy2 2y ago
> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that". https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pjc50 2y ago

You can find similar images from apartheit South Africa and apartheit southern US states before 1970. And in those cases they believe they are happy because of the protective wall of state violence against other humans. There was always what you might call a "particle" of fascism throughout the War on Terror (maintained by both parties! because it was popular with the public!) Things like the unaccountable secret prisons in Gunatanamo or Abu Gharib, or the US sniper who amused himself by randomly murdering hundreds of civilians (eventually convicted .. then pardoned). And then in the war on Gaza everyone (bipartisan) was falling over themselves to say that it was children's own fault for being in the same school as Hamas and that the Israeli government was right to bomb them. Back at home in BLM, everyone stood up for the right of the police to unaccountably murder citizens. Because that power would only be used against bad people, right?

throw0101a 2y ago

> They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. You may wish to watch this movie on the banality of the life of those who ran the concentration camps and who lived next to them: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film)

suraci 2y ago

> They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. the reason for this contradiction is that, in their view, some people are not considered human that's how nazis see jews, how colonizers see natives, how slaveholders see black slaves, how zionists see palestinians

immibis 2y ago

> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. In my experience, most of the people who get accused of being Nazis do turn out to be actual Nazis. Sometimes they are stupid enough to make overt Nazi gestures (e.g. Elon Musk) which is pretty much the only way the average person will accept that someone is a Nazi. Much more frequently they turn out to agree with Nazi ideas such as ethnic cleansing, but do not do the salute, and people will say they're not really a Nazi because they didn't do the salute.

voisin 2y ago

If you haven’t seen it, the 2023 film “The Zone of Interest” is an excellent movie that shows the banality of daily life in the Nazi regime. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film)

noduerme 2y ago

That's exactly why this book is so valuable and important. It shows the link between a happy daily life in a nice clean country (that happens to be at war) and the insane things those people ignored at the same time in order to act normal every day. Once you read it, you will look around at America in a completely different way. Because unlike ignoring something done in the past (slavery, colonization) this is not arguably not the fault of the people pretending normal through it. It's happening in realtime. The thing to look for is the mix of apathy and fear.