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Just so I understand: it's bad for Apple to have a proprietary E2EE solution, but it's good for Google to have one, and additionally it's Apple's fault for not

Just so I understand: it's bad for Apple to have a proprietary E2EE solution, but it's good for Google to have one, and additionally it's Apple's fault for not using Google's?

thayne 2y ago
Standardized interoperable E2EE > Proprietary E2EE > client-to-server encryption > no encryption It isn't as simple as "apple bad, google good". Apple/iOS having E2EE is good. Apple refusing to cooperate at all in making E2EE interoperable with non apple products is bad. Google/Android having E2EE is good, and better than the claim above that RCS doesn't have E2EE by default. The fact that it is a proprietary extension is bad, but they seem more willing to interoperate. That said, if the positions were reversed, I suspect Google would also be more resistant to interoperability.
- sbuk 2y ago
  So, explain exactly who Google is collaborating with by offering support for Jibe exclusively for certified Android devices with Google Play Services and only available through their proprietary messaging app. > That said, if the positions were reversed, I suspect Google would also be more resistant to interoperability. With Apple adding support to iOS for RCS, the shoe is on the other foot.
- dwaite 2y ago
  Google is not cooperating with anyone when it comes to their existing proprietary E2EE implementation. E2EE is available in Google's client only, able to be run on the Android devices Google certifies, when talking through Google's RCS server. That is because the core of their security model is a centralized key server, outside of the rest of RCS, that acts as the source of truth for an account and its associated public keys. That fails once you have accounts which are not being authoritatively managed by Google, e.g. an email address with multiple messaging services attached, or a phone number which may be managed by any number of third party RCS installations. That is a problem which is still being actively solved.
- JohnBooty 2y ago
  Standardized interoperable E2EE This isn't the thing you want it to be. Somebody has to broker connections and/or key exchange. You don't get to arbitrarily send messages to the device of somebody on the other side of the world unless a 3rd party is providing those services.

Just so I understand: it's bad for Apple to have a proprietary E2EE solution, but it's good for Google to have one, and additionally it's Apple's fault for not using Google's?

thayne 2y ago

Standardized interoperable E2EE > Proprietary E2EE > client-to-server encryption > no encryption It isn't as simple as "apple bad, google good". Apple/iOS having E2EE is good. Apple refusing to cooperate at all in making E2EE interoperable with non apple products is bad. Google/Android having E2EE is good, and better than the claim above that RCS doesn't have E2EE by default. The fact that it is a proprietary extension is bad, but they seem more willing to interoperate. That said, if the positions were reversed, I suspect Google would also be more resistant to interoperability.

sbuk 2y ago
So, explain exactly who Google is collaborating with by offering support for Jibe exclusively for certified Android devices with Google Play Services and only available through their proprietary messaging app. > That said, if the positions were reversed, I suspect Google would also be more resistant to interoperability. With Apple adding support to iOS for RCS, the shoe is on the other foot.
dwaite 2y ago
Google is not cooperating with anyone when it comes to their existing proprietary E2EE implementation. E2EE is available in Google's client only, able to be run on the Android devices Google certifies, when talking through Google's RCS server. That is because the core of their security model is a centralized key server, outside of the rest of RCS, that acts as the source of truth for an account and its associated public keys. That fails once you have accounts which are not being authoritatively managed by Google, e.g. an email address with multiple messaging services attached, or a phone number which may be managed by any number of third party RCS installations. That is a problem which is still being actively solved.
JohnBooty 2y ago
Standardized interoperable E2EE This isn't the thing you want it to be. Somebody has to broker connections and/or key exchange. You don't get to arbitrarily send messages to the device of somebody on the other side of the world unless a 3rd party is providing those services.