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> You think that [it] is based on giving some preference, but it isn't - its based on acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice. I would like to

> You think that [it] is based on giving some preference, but it isn't - its based on acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice. I would like to understand your point here. I agree with you that the stated justification for DEI policies is based on "acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice". I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So what is the point here? Because they are based on a noble goal, we should accept them? And if, instead, they were based on another nefarious purpose, they would not be acceptable? A policy may arise from various motivations, but eventually it must be evaluated on its own merits. Of course, the same policy may be implemented in various ways, toward a nefarious purpose or to a noble purpose. You sound like you genuinely care about this issue and I appreciate that when you hire people you consider they may contribute to the community in your department, how well they will mentor students, and so on. Those are all important things and I am happy you interpret DEI that way, but unfortunately that is not how they are often interpreted. From the journalism department at UC [1]: > Our commitment, should we be successful with this application, is to hire someone from the BIPOC community From the geography department at UC [1]: > Our aim is specifically to hire a Black, Indigenous, or Latinx faculty member From ethnic studies at UC [1]: > We have an urgent and qualified need for BIPOC femme/women of color faculty in an Africana Studies focus who will contribute to the social science division thematic cluster hire in racism and racial inequality. From psychology dept. at U Washington [2]: > I advise deleting the statement below as it shows that URM [underrepresented minority] applications were singled out and evaluated differently than non-URM applications (which is not allowed as [redacted] noted) > At a faculty meeting, someone whose name is redacted “informed faculty that the Hiring Committee had three outstanding candidates and so they used DEI to distinguish and select a first offer" > Before finalists were narrowed to three, five finalists were invited to virtual visits, with the schedules including meetings with the Women Faculty and Faculty of Color groups. But a member of the latter group expressed opposition to meeting the white candidates. “As a person who has been on both sides of the table for these meetings, I have really appreciated them,” the unnamed person wrote in an email. “Buuut, when the candidate is White, it is just awkward. The last meeting was uncomfortable, and I would go as far as burdensome for me. Can we change the policy to not do these going forward with White faculty?” If you believe that the sentiments expressed above are acceptable in a professional, academic setting, then we have totally different ethical values. [1] https://www.wsj.com/opinion/how-dei-conquered-the-university-of-colorado-boulder-discrimination-hiring-professors-0c306a9e?st=gcW1mt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/opinion/how-dei-conquered-the-university... [2] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/faculty-issues/diversity-equity/2023/11/03/u-washington-faculty-search-weighed-race https://www.insidehighered.com/news/faculty-issues/diversity...

defrost 2y ago
You ask: > I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So what is the point here? You give the example of the journalism, geography, and ethnic studies departments specifically seeking minority viewpoints. FWiW I don't think the DEI corporate and other programs in the USofA have been particularly well executed, they appear (from afar) to be more performative than substantive, however ... The three examples you gave should more or less answer your own question for you. Journalism, good reporting, brings deep informed insights from the ground. That's not going to happen when reporting on foreign countries and disadvantaged communities if all the reporters are (say) from a WASP background and perspective. Geography isn't just maps, there are strong elements of people's relations with land that are part of that domain .. again a breadth of viewpoints gives richer coverage. Ethnic studies. .. I mean does this really need a comment as to why diverse viewpoints deliver broader outcomes?
- Gabriel54 2y ago
  If the sentiments expressed in those internal deliberations seem perfectly normal to you, we really do have irreconcilable moral and ethical viewpoints. > breadth of viewpoints gives richer coverage Breadth of viewpoint has nothing intrinsically to do with the color of one's skin. > Journalism, good reporting, brings deep informed insights from the ground. That's not going to happen when reporting on foreign countries and disadvantaged communities if all the reporters are (say) from a WASP background and perspective. Again, the quality of a reporter and their work has nothing to do intrinsically with the color of their skin.
  - defrost 2y ago
    > If the sentiments expressed in those internal deliberations seem perfectly normal to you I didn't say that. Perhaps you might like to re-read. We may have different backgrounds in parsing English. > Breadth of viewpoint has nothing intrinsically to do with the color of one's skin. Again, I didn't say that. The point of these fat fingered US attempts to fix a problem is to ... fix a problem. The problem is that the starting point in reporting, ethinic studies, and geography was that the fields were dominated by an unrepresentative minority; white faces with vanilla backgrounds being the voices of authority on subjects they had no experience of. That was the problem. These fixes aren't great.

defrost 2y ago

You ask: > I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So what is the point here? You give the example of the journalism, geography, and ethnic studies departments specifically seeking minority viewpoints. FWiW I don't think the DEI corporate and other programs in the USofA have been particularly well executed, they appear (from afar) to be more performative than substantive, however ... The three examples you gave should more or less answer your own question for you. Journalism, good reporting, brings deep informed insights from the ground. That's not going to happen when reporting on foreign countries and disadvantaged communities if all the reporters are (say) from a WASP background and perspective. Geography isn't just maps, there are strong elements of people's relations with land that are part of that domain .. again a breadth of viewpoints gives richer coverage. Ethnic studies. .. I mean does this really need a comment as to why diverse viewpoints deliver broader outcomes?

Gabriel54 2y ago
If the sentiments expressed in those internal deliberations seem perfectly normal to you, we really do have irreconcilable moral and ethical viewpoints. > breadth of viewpoints gives richer coverage Breadth of viewpoint has nothing intrinsically to do with the color of one's skin. > Journalism, good reporting, brings deep informed insights from the ground. That's not going to happen when reporting on foreign countries and disadvantaged communities if all the reporters are (say) from a WASP background and perspective. Again, the quality of a reporter and their work has nothing to do intrinsically with the color of their skin.
- defrost 2y ago
  > If the sentiments expressed in those internal deliberations seem perfectly normal to you I didn't say that. Perhaps you might like to re-read. We may have different backgrounds in parsing English. > Breadth of viewpoint has nothing intrinsically to do with the color of one's skin. Again, I didn't say that. The point of these fat fingered US attempts to fix a problem is to ... fix a problem. The problem is that the starting point in reporting, ethinic studies, and geography was that the fields were dominated by an unrepresentative minority; white faces with vanilla backgrounds being the voices of authority on subjects they had no experience of. That was the problem. These fixes aren't great.