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> His book, The Network State (TNS), puts forth a new social contract enabled by “Web3 technology,” centered on blockchains I love articles that give me a mag

> His book, The Network State (TNS), puts forth a new social contract enabled by “Web3 technology,” centered on blockchains I love articles that give me a magic sentence right at the front that tells me I don't need to read any more

oneplane 2y ago
Another fun thing from that book is a fantasy on how things will be better because you can't revert things. It's essentially digital feudalism combined with populism. How could that possibly go wrong...
- mullingitover 2y ago
  xkcd summed up why these ideas are dumb in two panels[1] a really long time ago. Just replace 'encrypted laptop' with 'the private key that controls your whole life.' [2] https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    This is one of those ones I have the index essentially mapped to the image in my brain already, no need to click.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    > a really long time ago. 2009. Why do I think that Spiderman has just schooled me on my age.
  - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
    And yet, the brute with the $5 wrench still hasn't gotten Satoshi's bitcoins. There's a lot to be said for pseudonyminity.
- stephen_g 2y ago
  I couldn't believe it a few years ago when people were talking about NFTs as the 'future' of keeping track of property ownership for everything. Like, somebody stole a cryptographic key, now they can 'prove' they now own my house and I can't (code is law, right?). Or a relative died and now their crypto-currency keys are permanently inaccessible - now all their money is lost forever and nobody can inherit it, even with court order etc.! That's just not the world most people want to live in...
  - zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
    Code is not law. Law is law. Very few people argue that code is law and it has become an anti-blockchain talking point. Multi signature wallets exist.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > Multi signature wallets exist. Well... with a traditional bank, everyone knows that in a pinch you can just show up at any branch of your bank, present a government issued ID card and get your money. That doesn't need an user manual or any technical knowledge. Setting up multi-sig wallets and actually working disaster protection however? That needs a looot of knowledge.
      - egberts1 2y ago
        Ummmm, more like MULTI-WALLET, because ... anti-tracking or tracking, depending on your authoritarian stance.
    - kentm 2y ago
      > Code is not law. Law is law. Very few people argue that code is law and it has become an anti-blockchain talking point. I made this exact argument in discussions with "blockchain" proponents, in discussions of why "code as law" was not good, and got near-universal, vehement disagreement. I suspect that you underestimate how many people argue it.
RajT88 2y ago
You could as easily have led with: Hey stupid, who is going to work in your factories? And follow the premise from there.
- ericd 2y ago
  I’m guessing they think the answer is robots? Same answer for armies.
  - RajT88 2y ago
    But who maintains the robots! Lol
    - idle_zealot 2y ago
      Other robots, duh! The real question is "why are humans even involved with this?"
      - ericd 2y ago
        I'm imagining something like Solaria in Asimov's The Naked Sun (part of the Robot series). The world is divided up by a tiny human population, each with a huge estate with thousands of robots serving them.
        XorNot 2y ago
        Same idea comes up in The Foundation and Earth by Asimov.
      - cjfd 2y ago
        There is a joke that in a modern factory there is only a man and a dog. The man is only there to feed the dog and the dog is there to guard the equipment and make sure the man does not touch any of it.
      - airstrike 2y ago
        It's a job for Brion Brand, the mightiest weighlifter in the galaxy. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1549867.Planet_of_No_Return https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1549867.Planet_of_No_Ret...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
CamperBob2 2y ago
I love articles that give me a magic sentence right at the front that tells me I don't need to read any more I wish this were a laughing matter, but it's not. These people appear to be quite serious and quite capable. There's a coalition in play that includes the Project 2025 authors among others, operating at a scope that a lot of people don't fully appreciate. If this coalition holds together, they may be able to execute what many would consider a rather frightening agenda. Despite its cheesy title, this video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no ) offers an interesting perspective on Balaji Srinivasan and his place in a larger web of influence alongside people like Yarvin, Musk, and Vance. It's eye-opening. She released it back in November and promptly took a lot of flack from people calling her alarmist and conspiracy-prone, and now it's basically playing out in real time.
- samplatt 2y ago
  That video crossed my path 2 days ago. As much as it';s terrifying, I can't help but be impressed by how fucking close William Gibson and Mike Pondsmith came in writing their background-lore for their respective cyberpunk universes. The Corpos seizing power from a failing democracy, instigating war, and then declaring their own territories and power structures. From which the country, the world, never recovers.
- aldous 2y ago
  [dead]
aqueueaqueue 2y ago
I didn't read more. Because whether it was a critique of said web3 thing or praising it. I can't be bothered!
- tomrod 2y ago
  It is a critique, and timely one at that. Worth a read.
- floydnoel 2y ago
  the classic HN value of proud incuriosity! you love to see it
hooverd 2y ago
take these people entirely seriously right now
- tomrod 2y ago
  Indeed. As improbable as their end state is, forewarned is forearmed.
- floydnoel 2y ago
  sorry, GP is too busy posting shallow dismissals of things he didn't read! (and violating the HN rules along the way)
frontalier 2y ago
i would hope we don't dismiss this the same way we dismissed project 2025 then end up surprised it was the plan all along
dustingetz 2y ago
the book is quite interesting, one idea was - how many hours do we spend online per day? i spend, like, 15 hours plugged in - PC, iphone, TV/games. i’m plugged in when i’m driving, when i’m out jogging, i’m plugged in right now as i wake up drinking coffee in bed, I have more internet friends than IRL and they are more important, my business/financial relationships are entirely digital, as is most of my relationship with the state. So, why are governments organized by geography? How long until we free ourselves entirely from this constraint?
- teitoklien 2y ago
  We can’t , physical violence is still localized and geography based. A States core authority and existence is formed by having a monopoly on violence across a region, not services provided.
  - dustingetz 2y ago
    can't what? civilization is organized hierarchically, alliance union country state county city township neighborhood street family individual. Layers get added on top as civilization progresses in order to make trade more efficient. A concrete issue today is getting startup stock options to cross international lines in a remote-first world. There is sufficient demand for a solution that solutions will emerge on a timescale of, idk decades for sure. There were not global alliances 400 years ago and 400 years from now there will probably be interstellar. Fudge N to match your best guess as to rate of progress.
- ljm 2y ago
  Maybe I'm a simple person, but what you and other people who subscribe to this idea think seems to just be another brand of libertarianism. And libertarianism (by the US definition) is basically just edge-lord politics: if something isn't personally important to me then why does a government need to provide it? In this world free of geography, who exactly is responsible for keep all of the geographically constrained plumbing in operation while you recline at your desk and enjoy the digital porcelain? And would a board of corporate overlords owning your patch of land really serve you better than a council of local representatives?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

oneplane 2y ago

Another fun thing from that book is a fantasy on how things will be better because you can't revert things. It's essentially digital feudalism combined with populism. How could that possibly go wrong...

mullingitover 2y ago
xkcd summed up why these ideas are dumb in two panels[1] a really long time ago. Just replace 'encrypted laptop' with 'the private key that controls your whole life.' [2] https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  This is one of those ones I have the index essentially mapped to the image in my brain already, no need to click.
- ta1243 2y ago
  > a really long time ago. 2009. Why do I think that Spiderman has just schooled me on my age.
- AlchemistCamp 2y ago
  And yet, the brute with the $5 wrench still hasn't gotten Satoshi's bitcoins. There's a lot to be said for pseudonyminity.
stephen_g 2y ago
I couldn't believe it a few years ago when people were talking about NFTs as the 'future' of keeping track of property ownership for everything. Like, somebody stole a cryptographic key, now they can 'prove' they now own my house and I can't (code is law, right?). Or a relative died and now their crypto-currency keys are permanently inaccessible - now all their money is lost forever and nobody can inherit it, even with court order etc.! That's just not the world most people want to live in...
- zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
  Code is not law. Law is law. Very few people argue that code is law and it has become an anti-blockchain talking point. Multi signature wallets exist.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Multi signature wallets exist. Well... with a traditional bank, everyone knows that in a pinch you can just show up at any branch of your bank, present a government issued ID card and get your money. That doesn't need an user manual or any technical knowledge. Setting up multi-sig wallets and actually working disaster protection however? That needs a looot of knowledge.
    - egberts1 2y ago
      Ummmm, more like MULTI-WALLET, because ... anti-tracking or tracking, depending on your authoritarian stance.
  - kentm 2y ago
    > Code is not law. Law is law. Very few people argue that code is law and it has become an anti-blockchain talking point. I made this exact argument in discussions with "blockchain" proponents, in discussions of why "code as law" was not good, and got near-universal, vehement disagreement. I suspect that you underestimate how many people argue it.

RajT88 2y ago

You could as easily have led with: Hey stupid, who is going to work in your factories? And follow the premise from there.

ericd 2y ago
I’m guessing they think the answer is robots? Same answer for armies.
- RajT88 2y ago
  But who maintains the robots! Lol
  - idle_zealot 2y ago
    Other robots, duh! The real question is "why are humans even involved with this?"
    - ericd 2y ago
      I'm imagining something like Solaria in Asimov's The Naked Sun (part of the Robot series). The world is divided up by a tiny human population, each with a huge estate with thousands of robots serving them.
      - XorNot 2y ago
        Same idea comes up in The Foundation and Earth by Asimov.
    - cjfd 2y ago
      There is a joke that in a modern factory there is only a man and a dog. The man is only there to feed the dog and the dog is there to guard the equipment and make sure the man does not touch any of it.
    - airstrike 2y ago
      It's a job for Brion Brand, the mightiest weighlifter in the galaxy. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1549867.Planet_of_No_Return https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1549867.Planet_of_No_Ret...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

CamperBob2 2y ago

I love articles that give me a magic sentence right at the front that tells me I don't need to read any more I wish this were a laughing matter, but it's not. These people appear to be quite serious and quite capable. There's a coalition in play that includes the Project 2025 authors among others, operating at a scope that a lot of people don't fully appreciate. If this coalition holds together, they may be able to execute what many would consider a rather frightening agenda. Despite its cheesy title, this video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no ) offers an interesting perspective on Balaji Srinivasan and his place in a larger web of influence alongside people like Yarvin, Musk, and Vance. It's eye-opening. She released it back in November and promptly took a lot of flack from people calling her alarmist and conspiracy-prone, and now it's basically playing out in real time.

samplatt 2y ago
That video crossed my path 2 days ago. As much as it';s terrifying, I can't help but be impressed by how fucking close William Gibson and Mike Pondsmith came in writing their background-lore for their respective cyberpunk universes. The Corpos seizing power from a failing democracy, instigating war, and then declaring their own territories and power structures. From which the country, the world, never recovers.
aldous 2y ago
[dead]

aqueueaqueue 2y ago

I didn't read more. Because whether it was a critique of said web3 thing or praising it. I can't be bothered!

tomrod 2y ago
It is a critique, and timely one at that. Worth a read.
floydnoel 2y ago
the classic HN value of proud incuriosity! you love to see it

hooverd 2y ago

take these people entirely seriously right now

tomrod 2y ago
Indeed. As improbable as their end state is, forewarned is forearmed.
floydnoel 2y ago
sorry, GP is too busy posting shallow dismissals of things he didn't read! (and violating the HN rules along the way)

frontalier 2y ago

i would hope we don't dismiss this the same way we dismissed project 2025 then end up surprised it was the plan all along

dustingetz 2y ago

the book is quite interesting, one idea was - how many hours do we spend online per day? i spend, like, 15 hours plugged in - PC, iphone, TV/games. i’m plugged in when i’m driving, when i’m out jogging, i’m plugged in right now as i wake up drinking coffee in bed, I have more internet friends than IRL and they are more important, my business/financial relationships are entirely digital, as is most of my relationship with the state. So, why are governments organized by geography? How long until we free ourselves entirely from this constraint?

teitoklien 2y ago
We can’t , physical violence is still localized and geography based. A States core authority and existence is formed by having a monopoly on violence across a region, not services provided.
- dustingetz 2y ago
  can't what? civilization is organized hierarchically, alliance union country state county city township neighborhood street family individual. Layers get added on top as civilization progresses in order to make trade more efficient. A concrete issue today is getting startup stock options to cross international lines in a remote-first world. There is sufficient demand for a solution that solutions will emerge on a timescale of, idk decades for sure. There were not global alliances 400 years ago and 400 years from now there will probably be interstellar. Fudge N to match your best guess as to rate of progress.
ljm 2y ago
Maybe I'm a simple person, but what you and other people who subscribe to this idea think seems to just be another brand of libertarianism. And libertarianism (by the US definition) is basically just edge-lord politics: if something isn't personally important to me then why does a government need to provide it? In this world free of geography, who exactly is responsible for keep all of the geographically constrained plumbing in operation while you recline at your desk and enjoy the digital porcelain? And would a board of corporate overlords owning your patch of land really serve you better than a council of local representatives?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]