5 ms·

> Women don’t need men anymore in the developed world. Men are luxury goods and women are completely happy to live without. A man isn’t needed but merely wanted

> Women don’t need men anymore in the developed world. Men are luxury goods and women are completely happy to live without. A man isn’t needed but merely wanted and only wanted if he fits a very particular set of criteria. I’m not accusing you of being an incel (I’m really not trying to be sarcastic). But this has some real incel vibes. Are you a 2 only trying to date 10s? And I am not looking down from you from on high. I’m not wealthy. I’m doing okay. I’m definitely not tall. In my younger dating days I was in great shape (a part time fitness instructor) and if I weren’t out there as one of the few straight men without any feminine tendencies (is that a PC thing to say?) in a industry mostly with women and gay men, I wouldn’t have fared as well. But I wasn’t 5 foot 4 trying to step to a 5 foot 10 supermodel.

lmm 2y ago
They probably are literally involuntarily celibate. Women in the west are choosing, quite reasonably, to hook up with the top 20% of men and ignore the rest. I'm not saying that as a blame thing - I don't blame them, I might make the same choice in their position. But the result is that the bottom 80% of men have practically no options - and no, lowering their standards doesn't help, it's not a problem of having potential partners they don't want, it's a problem of not having potential partners at all. I wish we could at least be honest about this rather than victim-blaming.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  61% of women in the US are married or cohabitating and that doesn’t include those who are dating. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-share-of-u-s-adults-are-living-without-a-spouse-or-partner/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-... Yes I know that not all women are heterosexual. But I also didn’t include women who are in a heterosexual relationship but are not living with someone. It’s statistically impossible for only 20% of the men to be in a relationship or having sex.
  - strix_varius 2y ago
    While the previous commenter's numbers are exaggerated, the data from articles like this (and a decade ago, from okcupid), consistently shows stark asymmetry between the dating preferences of men and women - to the disadvantage of men in the "bottom" 50%. Before marrying, most of those 61% of women dated other men, and likely with a strong skew towards the top 20% as claimed.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      I finally get a chance to pull this obscure study out of my back pocket. It supports your thesis. I’m short by the way and married for the first time at 28 and the second time at 38 (still married). Short men are never in the top 20%. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/link-between-mens-height-divorce_n_5731688?utm_hp_ref=divorce&ir=Divorce https://www.huffpost.com/entry/link-between-mens-height-divo... Tall men were found to marry sooner in life, but were more at risk for divorce later on, as shorter men had more stable marriages. However, researchers note that the link between short men and stable marriages could be because they chose to marry later (or didn't have the option until later). Tall men were also more likely to marry women closer to their age, and who were better-educated.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > 61% of women in the US are married or cohabitating and that doesn’t include those who are dating. > It’s statistically impossible for only 20% of the men to be in a relationship or having sex. That's a backward-looking number though. Look at how fast the lines on your link's graph are dropping, and what that implies the rate might be among the newest cohorts.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Is much of that disparity due to economic causes? From my original citation: > Among those ages 25 to 54, 59% of Black adults were unpartnered in 2019. This is higher than the shares among Hispanic (38%), White (33%) and Asian (29%) adults. https://www.pewresearch.org/2023/12/04/wealth-gaps-across-racial-and-ethnic-groups/ https://www.pewresearch.org/2023/12/04/wealth-gaps-across-ra... Many people don’t want to get married until they are financially stable. (On a side note: I had no idea that there was such a disparity between Black weslth and White wealth and I’m Black). Ignoring race, but males aren’t doing as well financially as in the past and they may have something to do with them dating less and getting married less often.
- cultofmetatron 2y ago
  > Women in the west are choosing, quite reasonably, to hook up with the top 20% of men and ignore the rest. Ive been living abroad the past few years and it was night and day. in america, intimacy was a rare thing. outside the country, I've had zero issues finding partners who I find extremely attractive. Some of my well meaning friends back home warn me that they are "only interested in money" but I've never spent more than a meal at a decently priced restaurant for two. My current gf is significantly hotter than women who reject me back in the states and the only expensive thing about her is her love of instax photography. (that film ain't cheap, learn from me and do not get one of those cameras for your gf) TLDR: if western women arent' interested in you, do everything you can to be able to sustainably live outside the bubble.
  - bradlys 2y ago
    This kind of advice only works if you’re not interested in a woman who works. You’re not going to be getting an ambitious woman from abroad and bringing her back to the US. Most of those women would already be in the US if they were interested in such a path to begin with.
    - cultofmetatron 2y ago
      > This kind of advice only works if you’re not interested in a woman who works. Personally, I don't want a woman that works because I travel and I'd rather she travel fulltime with me. However, in my experience, latinas and asians are some of the hardest working women you'll ever meet. They seek out education and a lot of them want careers. they just arent' super entrepreneurial. Thats more about the culture they come though. people in the third world get drilled into their heads the importance of getting the right certifications. Once you get that shrink wrap off, you'd be surprised how many do start thinking about starting their own businesses. > Most of those women would already be in the US if they were interested in such a path to begin with. I couldn't disagree more. most latin people dont' wanna come to the united states. they value family and community more. Besides, the united states is notoriously difficult to come in legally. I'm trying to get my gf a visa and the application process requires a full interview, a year of waiting AND a nonrefundable fee. its not a surprise to me at all that people try to come in illegally.

lmm 2y ago

They probably are literally involuntarily celibate. Women in the west are choosing, quite reasonably, to hook up with the top 20% of men and ignore the rest. I'm not saying that as a blame thing - I don't blame them, I might make the same choice in their position. But the result is that the bottom 80% of men have practically no options - and no, lowering their standards doesn't help, it's not a problem of having potential partners they don't want, it's a problem of not having potential partners at all. I wish we could at least be honest about this rather than victim-blaming.

scarface_74 2y ago
61% of women in the US are married or cohabitating and that doesn’t include those who are dating. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-share-of-u-s-adults-are-living-without-a-spouse-or-partner/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-... Yes I know that not all women are heterosexual. But I also didn’t include women who are in a heterosexual relationship but are not living with someone. It’s statistically impossible for only 20% of the men to be in a relationship or having sex.
- strix_varius 2y ago
  While the previous commenter's numbers are exaggerated, the data from articles like this (and a decade ago, from okcupid), consistently shows stark asymmetry between the dating preferences of men and women - to the disadvantage of men in the "bottom" 50%. Before marrying, most of those 61% of women dated other men, and likely with a strong skew towards the top 20% as claimed.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    I finally get a chance to pull this obscure study out of my back pocket. It supports your thesis. I’m short by the way and married for the first time at 28 and the second time at 38 (still married). Short men are never in the top 20%. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/link-between-mens-height-divorce_n_5731688?utm_hp_ref=divorce&ir=Divorce https://www.huffpost.com/entry/link-between-mens-height-divo... Tall men were found to marry sooner in life, but were more at risk for divorce later on, as shorter men had more stable marriages. However, researchers note that the link between short men and stable marriages could be because they chose to marry later (or didn't have the option until later). Tall men were also more likely to marry women closer to their age, and who were better-educated.
- lmm 2y ago
  > 61% of women in the US are married or cohabitating and that doesn’t include those who are dating. > It’s statistically impossible for only 20% of the men to be in a relationship or having sex. That's a backward-looking number though. Look at how fast the lines on your link's graph are dropping, and what that implies the rate might be among the newest cohorts.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Is much of that disparity due to economic causes? From my original citation: > Among those ages 25 to 54, 59% of Black adults were unpartnered in 2019. This is higher than the shares among Hispanic (38%), White (33%) and Asian (29%) adults. https://www.pewresearch.org/2023/12/04/wealth-gaps-across-racial-and-ethnic-groups/ https://www.pewresearch.org/2023/12/04/wealth-gaps-across-ra... Many people don’t want to get married until they are financially stable. (On a side note: I had no idea that there was such a disparity between Black weslth and White wealth and I’m Black). Ignoring race, but males aren’t doing as well financially as in the past and they may have something to do with them dating less and getting married less often.
cultofmetatron 2y ago
> Women in the west are choosing, quite reasonably, to hook up with the top 20% of men and ignore the rest. Ive been living abroad the past few years and it was night and day. in america, intimacy was a rare thing. outside the country, I've had zero issues finding partners who I find extremely attractive. Some of my well meaning friends back home warn me that they are "only interested in money" but I've never spent more than a meal at a decently priced restaurant for two. My current gf is significantly hotter than women who reject me back in the states and the only expensive thing about her is her love of instax photography. (that film ain't cheap, learn from me and do not get one of those cameras for your gf) TLDR: if western women arent' interested in you, do everything you can to be able to sustainably live outside the bubble.
- bradlys 2y ago
  This kind of advice only works if you’re not interested in a woman who works. You’re not going to be getting an ambitious woman from abroad and bringing her back to the US. Most of those women would already be in the US if they were interested in such a path to begin with.
  - cultofmetatron 2y ago
    > This kind of advice only works if you’re not interested in a woman who works. Personally, I don't want a woman that works because I travel and I'd rather she travel fulltime with me. However, in my experience, latinas and asians are some of the hardest working women you'll ever meet. They seek out education and a lot of them want careers. they just arent' super entrepreneurial. Thats more about the culture they come though. people in the third world get drilled into their heads the importance of getting the right certifications. Once you get that shrink wrap off, you'd be surprised how many do start thinking about starting their own businesses. > Most of those women would already be in the US if they were interested in such a path to begin with. I couldn't disagree more. most latin people dont' wanna come to the united states. they value family and community more. Besides, the united states is notoriously difficult to come in legally. I'm trying to get my gf a visa and the application process requires a full interview, a year of waiting AND a nonrefundable fee. its not a surprise to me at all that people try to come in illegally.