5 ms·

The big question remains: is this downside worse than the innumerable and absolute known downsides associated with alcohol? If not, this is a purely acedemic i

The big question remains: is this downside worse than the innumerable and absolute known downsides associated with alcohol? If not, this is a purely acedemic issue.

portaouflop 2y ago
alcohol is proven to kill tens of thousands every year — obviously much worse than a few people who develop mental issues. Regardless in a free society people should have agency over what they do with their bodies. Education about these substances is the most important thing.
- lukan 2y ago
  "Education about these substances is the most important thing." Indeed. "obviously much worse than a few people who develop mental issues." So maybe start by comparing the average heavy weed smoker, to the average non drug user, to see if the issue with cannabis is really "just some people developing mental issues" (Disclaimer blabla: I always was pro legalisation and am happy, it finally is legal in germany now)
  - Perenti 2y ago
    History has shown that _bad_ education about substances doesn't work, as most kids know that pot rarely turns you into an axe wielding homicidal maniac. Educate using the truth - pot probably won't turn you crazy, but it might cost a lot of money and waste a lot of time.
  - portaouflop 2y ago
    For what it’s worth education sees alcohol as a much less harmful substance than weed (for example in Germany since you brought it up) - it’s completely acceptable to drink heavily every weekend to the point of almost landing in the hospital, while heavy weed use is seen as very deplorable (lazy etc). So while weed is not without harm i think alcohol has a magnitudes worse impact on society
    - lukan 2y ago
      Oh for sure, the first time I vomitted from alcohol was when I was 14 on a catholic winefestival - the wine was given to us as a present from the official organisators. But it has been some years and I believe (and hope) at least that changed a bit. Otherwise alcoholism is epidemic. But stoners, or well, people combing both and meth and whatever is a thing as well. Either way, also weed on its own is not harmless either, easily abused and your comment gave me the impression it is no big deal. Just like it was introduced to me as a teenager from the cool kids. And this is dangerous.
      - portaouflop 2y ago
        I think we are on the same page here. I just want to emphasise that for example alcohol and tobacco are magnitudes more abused than any other substances, 10x to be exact: Results: Alcohol was the most frequently used substance, with a 30-day prevalence of 70.5% (36.1 million people), followed by non-opioid analgesic drugs (47.4%; 24.2 million) and conventional tobacco products (22.7%; 11.6 million). E-cigarettes were used by 4.3% (2.2 million) and heat-not-burn products by 1.3% (665 000). Among illegal drugs (12-month prevalence), cannabis was the most frequently used (8.8%; 4.5 million), followed by cocaine/crack (1.6%; 818 000) and amphetamine (1.4%; 716 000). Rates of problematic use among the study participants were 17.6% for alcohol (9.0 million), 7.8% for tobacco (4.0 million), 5.7% for psychoactive medications (2.9 million), and 2.5% for cannabis (1.3 million). From https://www.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/226333/The-use-of-psychoactive-substances-in-Germany-findings-from-the-Epidemiological-Survey-of-Substance-Abuse-2021 https://www.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/226333/The-us... So yes weed is dangerous but alcohol is more than 10 times as dangerous- this nuance is often lost in public debate
        lukan 2y ago
        "but alcohol is more than 10 times as dangerous" That is quite subjective and not solid data. At least I am not aware of a scientific consensus in that regard. Alcohol is just more widespread because it was legal and part of the culture, so more abuse there. But this context here is about how that might change with the legal status.
aoanevdus 2y ago
There are practical reasons to understand the effects of both cannabis and alcohol. It’s not like we can only care about one of them at a time based on which is winning the social harm olympics.
guelo 2y ago
I don’t see how your conclusion follows. I quit heavy weed use because of noticeable cognitive and social problems. The warning is useful for users to know about regardless of the problems associated with alcohol.
baking 2y ago
Previous studies have shown that young adults who are susceptible to schizophrenia are more likely to develop it if they were heavy cannabis users at a younger age. As they get older it is less likely to develop, or they are better able to keep it from developing. My brother-in-law smoked cannabis in high school and college and was hospitalized for schizophrenia when he was in college. It wrecked his life and he still has schizophrenia at age 65. I don't think it is just an academic issue.
throw18376 2y ago
I support the legality of cannabis and alcohol. However, on an individual level, I think people need to know about the psychosis risks. It undoubtedly can trigger schizophrenia and make it much worse once it exists. I know more than a few people who have severe alcoholism problems in their families, and just chose to never drink alcohol. I think a similar choice may be wise for cannabis if there is a history of psychosis. On a public health level there was a theory that people would substitute cannabis for alcohol. But unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be bearing out.

The big question remains: is this downside worse than the innumerable and absolute known downsides associated with alcohol? If not, this is a purely acedemic issue.

portaouflop 2y ago

alcohol is proven to kill tens of thousands every year — obviously much worse than a few people who develop mental issues. Regardless in a free society people should have agency over what they do with their bodies. Education about these substances is the most important thing.

lukan 2y ago
"Education about these substances is the most important thing." Indeed. "obviously much worse than a few people who develop mental issues." So maybe start by comparing the average heavy weed smoker, to the average non drug user, to see if the issue with cannabis is really "just some people developing mental issues" (Disclaimer blabla: I always was pro legalisation and am happy, it finally is legal in germany now)
- Perenti 2y ago
  History has shown that _bad_ education about substances doesn't work, as most kids know that pot rarely turns you into an axe wielding homicidal maniac. Educate using the truth - pot probably won't turn you crazy, but it might cost a lot of money and waste a lot of time.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  For what it’s worth education sees alcohol as a much less harmful substance than weed (for example in Germany since you brought it up) - it’s completely acceptable to drink heavily every weekend to the point of almost landing in the hospital, while heavy weed use is seen as very deplorable (lazy etc). So while weed is not without harm i think alcohol has a magnitudes worse impact on society
  - lukan 2y ago
    Oh for sure, the first time I vomitted from alcohol was when I was 14 on a catholic winefestival - the wine was given to us as a present from the official organisators. But it has been some years and I believe (and hope) at least that changed a bit. Otherwise alcoholism is epidemic. But stoners, or well, people combing both and meth and whatever is a thing as well. Either way, also weed on its own is not harmless either, easily abused and your comment gave me the impression it is no big deal. Just like it was introduced to me as a teenager from the cool kids. And this is dangerous.
    - portaouflop 2y ago
      I think we are on the same page here. I just want to emphasise that for example alcohol and tobacco are magnitudes more abused than any other substances, 10x to be exact: Results: Alcohol was the most frequently used substance, with a 30-day prevalence of 70.5% (36.1 million people), followed by non-opioid analgesic drugs (47.4%; 24.2 million) and conventional tobacco products (22.7%; 11.6 million). E-cigarettes were used by 4.3% (2.2 million) and heat-not-burn products by 1.3% (665 000). Among illegal drugs (12-month prevalence), cannabis was the most frequently used (8.8%; 4.5 million), followed by cocaine/crack (1.6%; 818 000) and amphetamine (1.4%; 716 000). Rates of problematic use among the study participants were 17.6% for alcohol (9.0 million), 7.8% for tobacco (4.0 million), 5.7% for psychoactive medications (2.9 million), and 2.5% for cannabis (1.3 million). From https://www.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/226333/The-use-of-psychoactive-substances-in-Germany-findings-from-the-Epidemiological-Survey-of-Substance-Abuse-2021 https://www.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/226333/The-us... So yes weed is dangerous but alcohol is more than 10 times as dangerous- this nuance is often lost in public debate
      - lukan 2y ago
        "but alcohol is more than 10 times as dangerous" That is quite subjective and not solid data. At least I am not aware of a scientific consensus in that regard. Alcohol is just more widespread because it was legal and part of the culture, so more abuse there. But this context here is about how that might change with the legal status.

aoanevdus 2y ago

There are practical reasons to understand the effects of both cannabis and alcohol. It’s not like we can only care about one of them at a time based on which is winning the social harm olympics.

guelo 2y ago

I don’t see how your conclusion follows. I quit heavy weed use because of noticeable cognitive and social problems. The warning is useful for users to know about regardless of the problems associated with alcohol.

baking 2y ago

Previous studies have shown that young adults who are susceptible to schizophrenia are more likely to develop it if they were heavy cannabis users at a younger age. As they get older it is less likely to develop, or they are better able to keep it from developing. My brother-in-law smoked cannabis in high school and college and was hospitalized for schizophrenia when he was in college. It wrecked his life and he still has schizophrenia at age 65. I don't think it is just an academic issue.

throw18376 2y ago

I support the legality of cannabis and alcohol. However, on an individual level, I think people need to know about the psychosis risks. It undoubtedly can trigger schizophrenia and make it much worse once it exists. I know more than a few people who have severe alcoholism problems in their families, and just chose to never drink alcohol. I think a similar choice may be wise for cannabis if there is a history of psychosis. On a public health level there was a theory that people would substitute cannabis for alcohol. But unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be bearing out.