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The process is the problem. There is no oversight and accountability for Musk and his "DOGE". That's pure poison to Democracy and to a functioning society. Mus

The process is the problem. There is no oversight and accountability for Musk and his "DOGE". That's pure poison to Democracy and to a functioning society. Musk is neither competent nor efficient. He looks at line items and makes stuff up. He destroys a hundred useful things to destroy a bad one. Details don't matter to him. Its the same con man mentality that feeds off the works of his workforce. People who think he is a genius are gullible.

justanotheratom 2y ago
Can you give specific examples to back up your comments about Musk? I am quite gullible otherwise.
- throwawaymaroon 2y ago
  [dead]
- einrealist 2y ago
  - He claimed the US funded bio-weapons when they found payments for gain of function research. - Calling payments to non-profit organizations fraudulent on a whim. - The sweeping condemnation of what USAID was doing. - His call for a blanket drop of regulations. Either he knows better or he is totally lost in his sauce. Hard to say what's worse for where he is right now. I believe, he does not care. He only cares about his conception of the world and how AI and Mars are more important than those tiny tiny human problems. Society has to serve him and his god complex. He was told to find his subsidies and tax cuts by himself. That's what he is doing.
  - justanotheratom 2y ago
    Evidence is being presented in real-time on X for each of the things you mentioned. Suggest you do some homework instead of gleaning headlines from old media, who btw, was getting money from USAID - the latest series of evidence coming out on X today. You really need to take a hard look at who is gullible here.
    - yibg 2y ago
      Can you point me to some of the evidence being presented? I know elon's been posting claims of fraud and abuse, but I'm only seen his claims, without any evidence.
      - justanotheratom 2y ago
        way too many to list: Govt money going to NYTimes, AP, Reuters, Politico: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887191056074350690 https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887191056074350690 https://x.com/Austen/status/1887179699874304210 https://x.com/Austen/status/1887179699874304210 https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1887179349440290883 https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1887179349440290883 https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887184877197410455 https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887184877197410455 https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1887147866688213254 https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1887147866688213254 This guy has been providing evidence for a decade: https://x.com/MikeBenzCyber https://x.com/MikeBenzCyber Long list of questionable funding by USAID: https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1887151291895267553 https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1887151291895267553 ...
        yibg 2y ago
        Thanks for the info, I'll read into it more. EDIT to make my current position clear, I do think there is probably waste in various government agencies. My objection with the current approach is mainly 2 folds: 1. The lack of transparency and accountability 2. Some of the statements from the administration that are false or misleading. e.g. the 50 million on condoms. The 2 combined makes it difficult to have trust on what's happening.
        einrealist 2y ago
        There is ZERO context in those Tweets. Only showing a line item, with a dense description is NOT evidence for fraud. Its like if I were looking at your bank transactions and assuming the worst. Don't get me wrong. There is certainly fraud and overpayment happening in government operations. But just looking at receipts is not the smoking gun. If anyone suspects fraud, there are a processes. Inspectors Generals are (were) one way to have those payments investigated, DOJ and FBI would be another step. The IGs were fired last week. I wonder why... Also, this "Ian Miles Cheong" guy is literally a Kremlin operative - really someone worth blocking. So that's important to know about his motivations to sow doubt in US Democracy.
  - l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
    >- He claimed the US funded bio-weapons when they found payments for gain of function research. This is factual though. The previous NIH director Dr. Hugh Auchincloss and current deputy director Dr. Lawrence Tabak agree that the definition of "gain of function" as was listed on the NIH website applies to engineering a biological agent to infect something it normally wouldnt be able to. That coupled with the fact that Dr.Daszak submitted the Year 5 Annual Progress Report Nearly Two Years Late. Said report had the experiment with infected transgenic mice with four different coronaviruses, three of which were chimera or recombinant viruses with different spike proteins. When confronted in the deposition Daszak said that the reporting system was inaccessible. So they deposed the IT stack of the reporting system, and they showed logs that it was accessible and actually logged into several times during the 2 year period that the report was late. This is pretty strong circumstantial evidence that they were attempting to hide or delay the experiments from being discovered by the grant review process at the end of the year. The report is pretty damning. https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04.2024-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT.pdf https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04...
pizlonator 2y ago
His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry. It’s just that government isn’t that.
- frickinLasers 2y ago
  > His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry. Or are his companies successful despite that? The impression I get is that his direct reports are exceptionally good managers and shield the companies from his dumbest moves. Except at Twitter--that's lost, what, 75% of its value? (still works as a political platform for him though)
  - Vilian 2y ago
    Considering that twitter never profited since he took over, nah
    - ganoushoreilly 2y ago
      "Twitter" wasn't profitable when he bought it so I'm not sure this is a fair comparison.
  - pizlonator 2y ago
    That’s exactly what I mean by manage by trolling. He forces his directs to be good by trolling them with idiotic ideas. I don’t condone manage by trolling; it’s not how I want to manage or be managed. But it seems to have worked out for his industrial complex.
    - jhloa2 2y ago
      So he fosters competence with his incompetence? Seems like it would work just as well without him except for marketing. I'm impressed with Tesla and SpaceX as a whole, but from what I've heard, he hasn't been heavily involved with day to day decisions for more than a decade. From my perspective, his role is to be a hype man that consistently over promises and under delivers.
cbracketdash 2y ago
It's easy to dismiss eccentric people as conmen. But you have to consider, he has been at least partially instrumental in at least 2 impossible companies: electric cars and rockets. Regardless of what you think of his intellectual capacity, he has a proven track record of organizing people to produce exceptional outcomes ! An inevitable characteristic of his algorithm is chaos: delete as many constraints and parts as possible. When things break, re-add those necessary parts.
- squigz 2y ago
  > An inevitable characteristic of his algorithm is chaos: delete as many constraints and parts as possible. When things break, re-add those necessary parts. This might work sometimes for companies (surprisingly, often it doesn't) - it has far more significant and wide-reaching consequences when you're doing it to an entire country and its institutions, particularly one as influential as America.
- callc 2y ago
  > Regardless of what you think of his intellectual capacity, he has a proven track record of organizing people to produce exceptional outcomes ! And? Getting people whipped up into a frenzy through fear, us vs them mentality, narcissism, to do good work is toxic. Musk is toxic. We should stop elevating leaders as extra-ordinarily capable. Especially leaders who employ a negative leadership style instead of one founded on empathy, trust, respect, and importance of the group over leader.
  - newsreaderguy 2y ago
    ask yourself who is doing the whipping into frenzy the media + bureaucratic class + democrat leaders who all have a vested interest in these un-audited institutions remaining in the shadows, or the people doing exactly what half the country asked them to do: clean up the government in an unprecedented way
    - nmz 2y ago
      There's no media here, just people talking about the jobs they lost and the jobs they're going to lose, everyone can see it. For better or worse, there is no media, only social media mobs.

justanotheratom 2y ago

Can you give specific examples to back up your comments about Musk? I am quite gullible otherwise.

throwawaymaroon 2y ago
[dead]
einrealist 2y ago
- He claimed the US funded bio-weapons when they found payments for gain of function research. - Calling payments to non-profit organizations fraudulent on a whim. - The sweeping condemnation of what USAID was doing. - His call for a blanket drop of regulations. Either he knows better or he is totally lost in his sauce. Hard to say what's worse for where he is right now. I believe, he does not care. He only cares about his conception of the world and how AI and Mars are more important than those tiny tiny human problems. Society has to serve him and his god complex. He was told to find his subsidies and tax cuts by himself. That's what he is doing.
- justanotheratom 2y ago
  Evidence is being presented in real-time on X for each of the things you mentioned. Suggest you do some homework instead of gleaning headlines from old media, who btw, was getting money from USAID - the latest series of evidence coming out on X today. You really need to take a hard look at who is gullible here.
  - yibg 2y ago
    Can you point me to some of the evidence being presented? I know elon's been posting claims of fraud and abuse, but I'm only seen his claims, without any evidence.
    - justanotheratom 2y ago
      way too many to list: Govt money going to NYTimes, AP, Reuters, Politico: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887191056074350690 https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887191056074350690 https://x.com/Austen/status/1887179699874304210 https://x.com/Austen/status/1887179699874304210 https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1887179349440290883 https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1887179349440290883 https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887184877197410455 https://x.com/stillgray/status/1887184877197410455 https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1887147866688213254 https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1887147866688213254 This guy has been providing evidence for a decade: https://x.com/MikeBenzCyber https://x.com/MikeBenzCyber Long list of questionable funding by USAID: https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1887151291895267553 https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1887151291895267553 ...
      - yibg 2y ago
        Thanks for the info, I'll read into it more. EDIT to make my current position clear, I do think there is probably waste in various government agencies. My objection with the current approach is mainly 2 folds: 1. The lack of transparency and accountability 2. Some of the statements from the administration that are false or misleading. e.g. the 50 million on condoms. The 2 combined makes it difficult to have trust on what's happening.
      - einrealist 2y ago
        There is ZERO context in those Tweets. Only showing a line item, with a dense description is NOT evidence for fraud. Its like if I were looking at your bank transactions and assuming the worst. Don't get me wrong. There is certainly fraud and overpayment happening in government operations. But just looking at receipts is not the smoking gun. If anyone suspects fraud, there are a processes. Inspectors Generals are (were) one way to have those payments investigated, DOJ and FBI would be another step. The IGs were fired last week. I wonder why... Also, this "Ian Miles Cheong" guy is literally a Kremlin operative - really someone worth blocking. So that's important to know about his motivations to sow doubt in US Democracy.
- l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
  >- He claimed the US funded bio-weapons when they found payments for gain of function research. This is factual though. The previous NIH director Dr. Hugh Auchincloss and current deputy director Dr. Lawrence Tabak agree that the definition of "gain of function" as was listed on the NIH website applies to engineering a biological agent to infect something it normally wouldnt be able to. That coupled with the fact that Dr.Daszak submitted the Year 5 Annual Progress Report Nearly Two Years Late. Said report had the experiment with infected transgenic mice with four different coronaviruses, three of which were chimera or recombinant viruses with different spike proteins. When confronted in the deposition Daszak said that the reporting system was inaccessible. So they deposed the IT stack of the reporting system, and they showed logs that it was accessible and actually logged into several times during the 2 year period that the report was late. This is pretty strong circumstantial evidence that they were attempting to hide or delay the experiments from being discovered by the grant review process at the end of the year. The report is pretty damning. https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04.2024-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT.pdf https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04...

pizlonator 2y ago

His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry. It’s just that government isn’t that.

frickinLasers 2y ago
> His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry. Or are his companies successful despite that? The impression I get is that his direct reports are exceptionally good managers and shield the companies from his dumbest moves. Except at Twitter--that's lost, what, 75% of its value? (still works as a political platform for him though)
- Vilian 2y ago
  Considering that twitter never profited since he took over, nah
  - ganoushoreilly 2y ago
    "Twitter" wasn't profitable when he bought it so I'm not sure this is a fair comparison.
- pizlonator 2y ago
  That’s exactly what I mean by manage by trolling. He forces his directs to be good by trolling them with idiotic ideas. I don’t condone manage by trolling; it’s not how I want to manage or be managed. But it seems to have worked out for his industrial complex.
  - jhloa2 2y ago
    So he fosters competence with his incompetence? Seems like it would work just as well without him except for marketing. I'm impressed with Tesla and SpaceX as a whole, but from what I've heard, he hasn't been heavily involved with day to day decisions for more than a decade. From my perspective, his role is to be a hype man that consistently over promises and under delivers.

cbracketdash 2y ago

It's easy to dismiss eccentric people as conmen. But you have to consider, he has been at least partially instrumental in at least 2 impossible companies: electric cars and rockets. Regardless of what you think of his intellectual capacity, he has a proven track record of organizing people to produce exceptional outcomes ! An inevitable characteristic of his algorithm is chaos: delete as many constraints and parts as possible. When things break, re-add those necessary parts.

squigz 2y ago
> An inevitable characteristic of his algorithm is chaos: delete as many constraints and parts as possible. When things break, re-add those necessary parts. This might work sometimes for companies (surprisingly, often it doesn't) - it has far more significant and wide-reaching consequences when you're doing it to an entire country and its institutions, particularly one as influential as America.
callc 2y ago
> Regardless of what you think of his intellectual capacity, he has a proven track record of organizing people to produce exceptional outcomes ! And? Getting people whipped up into a frenzy through fear, us vs them mentality, narcissism, to do good work is toxic. Musk is toxic. We should stop elevating leaders as extra-ordinarily capable. Especially leaders who employ a negative leadership style instead of one founded on empathy, trust, respect, and importance of the group over leader.
- newsreaderguy 2y ago
  ask yourself who is doing the whipping into frenzy the media + bureaucratic class + democrat leaders who all have a vested interest in these un-audited institutions remaining in the shadows, or the people doing exactly what half the country asked them to do: clean up the government in an unprecedented way
  - nmz 2y ago
    There's no media here, just people talking about the jobs they lost and the jobs they're going to lose, everyone can see it. For better or worse, there is no media, only social media mobs.