4 ms·

How is it woke nonsense to not want to create a weapon that probabilistically determines if a civilian looks close enough like a bad guy to missle strike them?

by aprilthird2021 2y ago

captainbland 2y ago
Or better yet, misinterpret who the target is even supposed to be because of a hallucination.
- worik 2y ago
  > Or better yet, misinterpret who the target is even supposed to be because of a hallucination. Who, in that business, cares? AI will provide a fig leaf for the indiscriminate large scale killing that is regularly done since the start of industrialised warfare. Using robots spare drone pilots from PTSD From the perspective of the murderous thugs that run our nations (way way before the current bunch of plainly bonkers ones in the USA), what is not to like? Whilst there are all sorts of quibbles about weapons generally being evil, this is evil.
  - captainbland 2y ago
    AI driven drones in particular seem like ideal tools for carrying out a genocide: identify an ethnicity based off some physical characteristics, kill. No paperwork, no transport, no human conscience. Just manufacture, deploy and instruct at scale. Sure, it might get it wrong sometimes but you've got to break a few eggs...
tmnvdb 2y ago
This sentiment ignores the reality on the ground in favor of performative ideological purity - civilians are already getting blown up all the time by systems that do not even attempt to make any distinction between civilians and soldiers: artillery shells, mortars, landmines, rockets, etc.
- pixl97 2y ago
  And indiscriminate has a cost that can slow people from using them. Imagine you have a weapon that can find and kill all the 'bad guys'. Would you not be in a morally compromised position if you didn't use it? You're letting innocents die every moment you don't. * warning definitions of bad guys may differ leading to further conflict.
  - tmnvdb 2y ago
    The logic of this argument implies we should develop weapons with maximal collateral damage to deter their usage.
    - pixl97 2y ago
      Which begs the question of if we can escape the Red Queen hypothesis. Personally I don't think we can as a species.
- siltcakes 2y ago
  The reality on the ground is that one of the very first uses of AI weapons was to target civilians in Gaza: > Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
  - tmnvdb 2y ago
    Lavender is not an autonomous weapon but if you want to seriously consider if Lavender is a good thing (I am undecided) you need to compare the effect of this operation with Lavender and the effect of doing the same operation without the Lavender system. Otherwise you run the risk of making arguments that in the end just boil down to 'weapons bad'.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  > civilians are already getting blown up all the time by systems that do not even attempt to make any distinction between civilians and soldiers: artillery shells, mortars, landmines, rockets, etc. Right, and everytime that happens because of miscalculations by our government they lose the very real and important public license to continue. Ultimately modern wars led by democracies are won by public desire to continue them. The American public can become very hesitant to wage war very fast, if we unleash Minority Report on the world for revenge
uejfiweun 2y ago
Because "not wanting" to do something that would make the company money due to moral considerations that aren't shared by your competitors is idiotic.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Ah, the Nuremberg Defense
  - uejfiweun 2y ago
    Lol, is that all you people can ever come up with? "I disagree, therefore you're a Nazi?" Hasn't the events of the past 6 months shown you that this dumb "gotcha" style debating doesn't work?
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      I couldn't do anything because of "moral considerations" my peers don't share. That's literally the Nuremberg Defense. Maybe pointing this out doesn't "work" but it is true. Do what you will with that, I'm not here to "work" on you or anything like that. You're a free person, as am I

How is it woke nonsense to not want to create a weapon that probabilistically determines if a civilian looks close enough like a bad guy to missle strike them?

captainbland 2y ago

Or better yet, misinterpret who the target is even supposed to be because of a hallucination.

worik 2y ago
> Or better yet, misinterpret who the target is even supposed to be because of a hallucination. Who, in that business, cares? AI will provide a fig leaf for the indiscriminate large scale killing that is regularly done since the start of industrialised warfare. Using robots spare drone pilots from PTSD From the perspective of the murderous thugs that run our nations (way way before the current bunch of plainly bonkers ones in the USA), what is not to like? Whilst there are all sorts of quibbles about weapons generally being evil, this is evil.
- captainbland 2y ago
  AI driven drones in particular seem like ideal tools for carrying out a genocide: identify an ethnicity based off some physical characteristics, kill. No paperwork, no transport, no human conscience. Just manufacture, deploy and instruct at scale. Sure, it might get it wrong sometimes but you've got to break a few eggs...

tmnvdb 2y ago

This sentiment ignores the reality on the ground in favor of performative ideological purity - civilians are already getting blown up all the time by systems that do not even attempt to make any distinction between civilians and soldiers: artillery shells, mortars, landmines, rockets, etc.

pixl97 2y ago
And indiscriminate has a cost that can slow people from using them. Imagine you have a weapon that can find and kill all the 'bad guys'. Would you not be in a morally compromised position if you didn't use it? You're letting innocents die every moment you don't. * warning definitions of bad guys may differ leading to further conflict.
- tmnvdb 2y ago
  The logic of this argument implies we should develop weapons with maximal collateral damage to deter their usage.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    Which begs the question of if we can escape the Red Queen hypothesis. Personally I don't think we can as a species.
siltcakes 2y ago
The reality on the ground is that one of the very first uses of AI weapons was to target civilians in Gaza: > Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
- tmnvdb 2y ago
  Lavender is not an autonomous weapon but if you want to seriously consider if Lavender is a good thing (I am undecided) you need to compare the effect of this operation with Lavender and the effect of doing the same operation without the Lavender system. Otherwise you run the risk of making arguments that in the end just boil down to 'weapons bad'.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
> civilians are already getting blown up all the time by systems that do not even attempt to make any distinction between civilians and soldiers: artillery shells, mortars, landmines, rockets, etc. Right, and everytime that happens because of miscalculations by our government they lose the very real and important public license to continue. Ultimately modern wars led by democracies are won by public desire to continue them. The American public can become very hesitant to wage war very fast, if we unleash Minority Report on the world for revenge

uejfiweun 2y ago

Because "not wanting" to do something that would make the company money due to moral considerations that aren't shared by your competitors is idiotic.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
Ah, the Nuremberg Defense
- uejfiweun 2y ago
  Lol, is that all you people can ever come up with? "I disagree, therefore you're a Nazi?" Hasn't the events of the past 6 months shown you that this dumb "gotcha" style debating doesn't work?
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    I couldn't do anything because of "moral considerations" my peers don't share. That's literally the Nuremberg Defense. Maybe pointing this out doesn't "work" but it is true. Do what you will with that, I'm not here to "work" on you or anything like that. You're a free person, as am I