5 ms·

It does imply a potentially interesting algorithm though: Show all of the women to all of the men. From this you get numbers on which women are the most highly

It does imply a potentially interesting algorithm though: Show all of the women to all of the men. From this you get numbers on which women are the most highly rated. Then, show women a) men who are at the same percentile as them or below and b) the smaller number of men who have already liked them. The result is that 60th percentile women end up primarily liking 60th percentile men and so on, because they're the highest rated men they're typically shown, and they're going to pick the top 5% of whatever distribution you show them. Then you end up with good matches, instead of having all the women match only with the 95th percentile players who don't want a serious relationship.

nemomarx 2y ago
how do you get the percentile ranking for the men to do the matching with?
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  Being shown to people who don't like you causes you to move down. Being liked causes you to move up. Apply the relevant statistical math to apply a slightly stronger signal when the like is from someone who themselves is higher rated.
naijaboiler 2y ago
won't work. many women won't end up liking anyone. And like he said, the most expensive thing to acquire is women. You have to be able to give women their "dream man" to retain them. And in apps, much much much more so than in real life, they will mostly all choose the same dream man. showing a 60 percentile woman, men that around 60 percentile is a sure way to drive women away from your app
- BeFlatXIII 2y ago
  > You have to be able to give women their "dream man" to retain them Same strategy as attracting men: fake profiles and spambots.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > many women won't end up liking anyone. The implication being that the 60th percentile women who don't like 60th percentile men would have liked 95th percentile men. But that's useless, because finding matches for those men was never your problem to begin with. And those men are also going to match with 95th percentile women and then choose them over the 60th percentile women anyway unless they're only looking for a hookup, so you're neither solving any problem for the platform nor any problem for the women. > You have to be able to give women their "dream man" to retain them. That's just a charade. The 60th percentile women on average can't actually land the 95th percentile men, but if you show them all the 95th percentile men then it reduces the rate at which they like the men they could actually land, which frustrates both the men and the women, because they're both looking for real matches that could actually go somewhere. > showing a 60 percentile woman, men that around 60 percentile is a sure way to drive women away from your app If you show them 95th percentile men then they like them but so do most other women, and then the men in that group will either not reply to most of them or will reply to all of them intending to ghost them after having sex or cheat on them, which... is a sure way to drive women away from your app.
  - eloisius 2y ago
    > And those men are also going to match with 95th percentile women and then choose them over the 60th percentile women anyway unless they're only looking for a hookup That’s exactly what happens. Those guys have plenty of hookup opportunities, and the women have the mirage of being able to get any guy, just for some reason all these jerks only want sex, but somehow someday one will stick
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      Which is why you need to take away the mirage so they stop chasing it and go find actual water. Having them leave the app isn't any worse than having them never like anyone they could actually land. Having the ones with impossible standards go malign your competitors could even be to your advantage, because then the competing apps get a higher proportion of the women who never reply, whereas the thing you need to make your app work is to have the women who do reply.
eloisius 2y ago
This only works in a vacuum. In the real world women will just close your app and open the one that has hot guys. I do wonder what would happen if you told people their own ranking and the ranking of their recommendations plainly though.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  The only way to find out if it will show them hot guys is by using it for a while, at which point they'll already have liked some normal guys. Who then reply to them and aren't all pickup artists and make them want to keep using this app instead of the one that only matches them with polygamous himbos.
thomastjeffery 2y ago
You missed the fundamental point. The only ranking that can be done via a dating app is a ranking of the attributes that can be shared via a dating app. That will always leave out the attributes that would otherwise be shared via person-to-person interaction. The only way to meaningfully change this situation is by sorting/ranking after interpersonal interaction.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  The article identifies a very specific problem. Women will swipe through the app and reject the bottom 95% of the men immediately, but then all of them women end up matching with only 5% of the men. This is useless to both the 95% of men who don't get any matches and the 95% of women who can't all be in a monogamous relationship with that 5% of men. In theory you could just stop showing the top 5% of men to anyone, but that's pretty useless. Then the 90-95th percentile men would get all the matches and you haven't solved anything. You could assign percentiles at random so that some 80th percentile women only see 40th percentile men and vice versa, but that seems less likely to work for obvious reasons. The problem you need to solve is to get the 60th percentile women to go on a date with the 60th percentile men to begin with. What happens then is up to them, but at least you're putting people in a situation that could lead to something, instead of the one:many matching that sucks for everyone except the players.
  - thomastjeffery 2y ago
    Again, this is all predicated on what data can be measured inside the app. The top 5% of men would be a completely different group if it was measured differently. It's not the actual men we are ranking here, it's their profiles.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      How to measure it isn't really a difficulty. It's the ones who cause the women to hit the like button.
      - 2y ago

nemomarx 2y ago

how do you get the percentile ranking for the men to do the matching with?

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
Being shown to people who don't like you causes you to move down. Being liked causes you to move up. Apply the relevant statistical math to apply a slightly stronger signal when the like is from someone who themselves is higher rated.

naijaboiler 2y ago

won't work. many women won't end up liking anyone. And like he said, the most expensive thing to acquire is women. You have to be able to give women their "dream man" to retain them. And in apps, much much much more so than in real life, they will mostly all choose the same dream man. showing a 60 percentile woman, men that around 60 percentile is a sure way to drive women away from your app

BeFlatXIII 2y ago
> You have to be able to give women their "dream man" to retain them Same strategy as attracting men: fake profiles and spambots.
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
> many women won't end up liking anyone. The implication being that the 60th percentile women who don't like 60th percentile men would have liked 95th percentile men. But that's useless, because finding matches for those men was never your problem to begin with. And those men are also going to match with 95th percentile women and then choose them over the 60th percentile women anyway unless they're only looking for a hookup, so you're neither solving any problem for the platform nor any problem for the women. > You have to be able to give women their "dream man" to retain them. That's just a charade. The 60th percentile women on average can't actually land the 95th percentile men, but if you show them all the 95th percentile men then it reduces the rate at which they like the men they could actually land, which frustrates both the men and the women, because they're both looking for real matches that could actually go somewhere. > showing a 60 percentile woman, men that around 60 percentile is a sure way to drive women away from your app If you show them 95th percentile men then they like them but so do most other women, and then the men in that group will either not reply to most of them or will reply to all of them intending to ghost them after having sex or cheat on them, which... is a sure way to drive women away from your app.
- eloisius 2y ago
  > And those men are also going to match with 95th percentile women and then choose them over the 60th percentile women anyway unless they're only looking for a hookup That’s exactly what happens. Those guys have plenty of hookup opportunities, and the women have the mirage of being able to get any guy, just for some reason all these jerks only want sex, but somehow someday one will stick
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    Which is why you need to take away the mirage so they stop chasing it and go find actual water. Having them leave the app isn't any worse than having them never like anyone they could actually land. Having the ones with impossible standards go malign your competitors could even be to your advantage, because then the competing apps get a higher proportion of the women who never reply, whereas the thing you need to make your app work is to have the women who do reply.

eloisius 2y ago

This only works in a vacuum. In the real world women will just close your app and open the one that has hot guys. I do wonder what would happen if you told people their own ranking and the ranking of their recommendations plainly though.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
The only way to find out if it will show them hot guys is by using it for a while, at which point they'll already have liked some normal guys. Who then reply to them and aren't all pickup artists and make them want to keep using this app instead of the one that only matches them with polygamous himbos.

thomastjeffery 2y ago

You missed the fundamental point. The only ranking that can be done via a dating app is a ranking of the attributes that can be shared via a dating app. That will always leave out the attributes that would otherwise be shared via person-to-person interaction. The only way to meaningfully change this situation is by sorting/ranking after interpersonal interaction.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
The article identifies a very specific problem. Women will swipe through the app and reject the bottom 95% of the men immediately, but then all of them women end up matching with only 5% of the men. This is useless to both the 95% of men who don't get any matches and the 95% of women who can't all be in a monogamous relationship with that 5% of men. In theory you could just stop showing the top 5% of men to anyone, but that's pretty useless. Then the 90-95th percentile men would get all the matches and you haven't solved anything. You could assign percentiles at random so that some 80th percentile women only see 40th percentile men and vice versa, but that seems less likely to work for obvious reasons. The problem you need to solve is to get the 60th percentile women to go on a date with the 60th percentile men to begin with. What happens then is up to them, but at least you're putting people in a situation that could lead to something, instead of the one:many matching that sucks for everyone except the players.
- thomastjeffery 2y ago
  Again, this is all predicated on what data can be measured inside the app. The top 5% of men would be a completely different group if it was measured differently. It's not the actual men we are ranking here, it's their profiles.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    How to measure it isn't really a difficulty. It's the ones who cause the women to hit the like button.
    - 2y ago